MaxSteiner
Mongoose
Well also, I don't know if anyone notticed, but doesn't it say it will have rules for converting existing units into evo rather than giving all the stats?
S&P 47
- Thread starter MaxSteiner
- Start date
human_target
Mongoose
While I'm at a loss for words about the latest news, I won't give up on SST.
I've been there from the beginning and I'm one of those who still like SST V1, with the AIr Phase, Tunneling Rules, traits, piercing, etcetera etcetera....
Honestly, the only problem I'm faced with is where to spend my money.
I'm also one of those 'once-earned-need-to-spend' kinda guy.
So probably off to 1/72 WWII and Modern warfare (using either BFevo rules or the underrated Alzo Zero rules), Battlestar Galactica (using Full Thrust rules), and buying those awesome AT-43 troops and walkers (somehow that's where I'm dissapointed the most: SST is much better games-wise, but Rackham keeps getting most of their line out on time and they don't seem to have that much trouble about their pre-painted figs)
Mongoose promised to raise the standards that many months ago (and they delivered BFevo - think what you want, I bought the USMC and MEA and I like them as they are), and now they tell us they can do even better. In my head Ipicture something that I won't probably see, but in life most things aren't always going the way you like it.
So I'll keep on lurking on these forums and see you all once SST evolution gets out.
s
I've been there from the beginning and I'm one of those who still like SST V1, with the AIr Phase, Tunneling Rules, traits, piercing, etcetera etcetera....
Honestly, the only problem I'm faced with is where to spend my money.
I'm also one of those 'once-earned-need-to-spend' kinda guy.
So probably off to 1/72 WWII and Modern warfare (using either BFevo rules or the underrated Alzo Zero rules), Battlestar Galactica (using Full Thrust rules), and buying those awesome AT-43 troops and walkers (somehow that's where I'm dissapointed the most: SST is much better games-wise, but Rackham keeps getting most of their line out on time and they don't seem to have that much trouble about their pre-painted figs)
Mongoose promised to raise the standards that many months ago (and they delivered BFevo - think what you want, I bought the USMC and MEA and I like them as they are), and now they tell us they can do even better. In my head Ipicture something that I won't probably see, but in life most things aren't always going the way you like it.
So I'll keep on lurking on these forums and see you all once SST evolution gets out.
s
MaxSteiner said:I havent actually seen you say anything positive about the game in a year or so
Because this forum isn't worth wasting time in...
Let me see: I have X amount of time I can spend. I could waste time here. But that would mean I would have to reduce time on positive forums. Or I could just ignore this forum and check back time to time to see if peope here have adopted more positive attitude.
Seems they haven't.
Did you read the article?
Noticed part saying about giving article allowing people to use V1 models in them? Rules are already out. Add to that and off you go...Nothing else needed.
But hey...Reading article throughly...Why do that when you can complain eh?-)
Gauntlet-
Banded Mongoose
tneva82 said:
Yes but if they wernt told to expect a release per month, then would they be expecting it? The article seemed to think that this expectation of 'per month' was something unique to miniatures. Its not, that is not an industry standard. The problem is unique to Mongoose.
Gauntlet- said:
Dunno...Wonder what would FB/40k gamers think if those games didn't get something for a month...
Then again even before Evo news year ago people were nagging Mongoose "when X comes, when Y comes, when Z comes" etc and seemed as if they couldn't wait at all...So nothing changes.
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
tneva82 said:
You know for someone who doesnt have enough time to waste with 'Negative forums' you sure do post alot
Many of you have stated "Oh well this dosen't hurt me" or "I can wait" While that is true, I believe this situation of delay is going impact us & MGP. Back when the game was going strong, my FLGS purchased hundreds of dollars of SST product at regular wholesale prices. Then word was released of an impending dramatic change. Sales stopped. At the very moment when the game was gaining momentum, it all just stopped. With out sales their was no need to replace the product on the shelf. Now the store owner has a dead space on his shelf with product gathering dust as we wait for the game to start up again. ( I had hoped that with the buzz around the release of pre-paints I could sell the old product)
Then MGP announces discounted online prices for product. MGP offered the same discount to stores but, what good does it do to offer discounts to retailers to purchase old product that isn’t moving off the shelves.
According to the owner of my FLGS, he has $1,600 (wholesale) in product with only $103.00 in sales over the last 6 months!
Once my store owner learns that further delays of substantial length are expected He will be forced to dump the product at MGP’s discounted prices and move on. In addition according to MGP for the foreseeable future BF:Evo players should look for new minis in model shops, not game stores! Won't that make game store owners eager to carry the line! What on earth would make him come back to SST or BF:E after this mess.
Ever wonder why you can’t purchase Urban Mammoth products at most hobby stores? Because they got stung by Void.
Warzone
Cronopia
Vor
Celtos
And on and on and on.
Unless this situation is redressed soon retailers will dump not only SST (most already have), but now BF:Evo as well and move on. Stores will focus on products they can sell, can anyone say AT-43/WH40k? If and when MGP works out the miniatures problems how will they get the retailers back? If you say because the product will be so wonderful that stores won’t be able to refuse, check out Urban Mammoth's webpage, it’s pretty good stuff and I don’t see any retail outlets in my state carrying it, memories are long...fool me once shame on you etc. If stores refuse to carry SST:Evo/ BF:Evo because of bad memories over this debacle, then MGP may not make enough to continue product development. In other words by by SST: Evo, even BF:Evo. That is how I believe this mess will effect us & MGP. I don’t know about you but most people don’t play dead games. Play any good games of Vor lately?
To me the real killer is that none of this was necessary. Why the move from metal to pre-paints? The original line was great! Why start a near future game before you have your sci/fi game well and truly established?
The only hope we have is to get the new SST rules fast, I mean now, and sell the old minis. We have to keep this game alive in the stores (demos & tourneys) and prop up sales of the existing line if we are to expect the stores to pick up SST:Evo if and when it comes out. As far as BF:Evo is concerned.........
And for those of you who critisize me for being negative....This game is important to me, it's the best sci/fi game on the market. I am greatly disapointed in the decisions of MGP. This is how I let them know.
Regards
Then MGP announces discounted online prices for product. MGP offered the same discount to stores but, what good does it do to offer discounts to retailers to purchase old product that isn’t moving off the shelves.
According to the owner of my FLGS, he has $1,600 (wholesale) in product with only $103.00 in sales over the last 6 months!
Once my store owner learns that further delays of substantial length are expected He will be forced to dump the product at MGP’s discounted prices and move on. In addition according to MGP for the foreseeable future BF:Evo players should look for new minis in model shops, not game stores! Won't that make game store owners eager to carry the line! What on earth would make him come back to SST or BF:E after this mess.
Ever wonder why you can’t purchase Urban Mammoth products at most hobby stores? Because they got stung by Void.
Warzone
Cronopia
Vor
Celtos
And on and on and on.
Unless this situation is redressed soon retailers will dump not only SST (most already have), but now BF:Evo as well and move on. Stores will focus on products they can sell, can anyone say AT-43/WH40k? If and when MGP works out the miniatures problems how will they get the retailers back? If you say because the product will be so wonderful that stores won’t be able to refuse, check out Urban Mammoth's webpage, it’s pretty good stuff and I don’t see any retail outlets in my state carrying it, memories are long...fool me once shame on you etc. If stores refuse to carry SST:Evo/ BF:Evo because of bad memories over this debacle, then MGP may not make enough to continue product development. In other words by by SST: Evo, even BF:Evo. That is how I believe this mess will effect us & MGP. I don’t know about you but most people don’t play dead games. Play any good games of Vor lately?
To me the real killer is that none of this was necessary. Why the move from metal to pre-paints? The original line was great! Why start a near future game before you have your sci/fi game well and truly established?
The only hope we have is to get the new SST rules fast, I mean now, and sell the old minis. We have to keep this game alive in the stores (demos & tourneys) and prop up sales of the existing line if we are to expect the stores to pick up SST:Evo if and when it comes out. As far as BF:Evo is concerned.........
And for those of you who critisize me for being negative....This game is important to me, it's the best sci/fi game on the market. I am greatly disapointed in the decisions of MGP. This is how I let them know.
Regards
combatdroid113
Mongoose
wow you said it, got it in one no whinning or nasty attacks i applaud you sir
Nope. The same problem is clearly seen with at least one other miniature company at this present time. I've also personally seen several "why nothing new, is the game dead?" discussions over the years.Gauntlet- said:
Now this may be a 'Net thing (in other words people don't go to brick-and-mortar stores and squeal about it to the manager), hence not "industry standard", but it's not a Mongoose thing or Mr. Sprange's invention.
Balaan Wrath
Mongoose
Gauntlet- said:
More like a ADHD thing, welcome to the future.
Stonehorse
Mongoose
Avenger6 said:
Agree 100%
After reading the article I feel that SST:EVO has died even before it had chance to take off. That and Battlefield:Evo is also going to be 'killed off' soon enough.
Guess those Skinnies, and LAMI I bought will find there way on to Ebay once I've painted them up.
It is sad as I really liked the game system, it felt like a 'real' Sci-Fi setting and not some Fantasy in space.
I really wish I was wrong, from now on the only thing I'll be buying from Mongoose will be Babylon 5 ACTA (at least game system has been given the justice it warrents).
JoseDominguez
Mongoose
Avenger6 said:
Urban war is one of the best systems I've played, the minis are absolutely superb (up until the more recent ones anyway). You're quite right, travelling man etc... all dumped everything for urban war at 99p a blister, they replaced it with........ SST, which is now undergoing the same treatment (not down to 99p yet though).
Your post isn't negative, it's a plea to save the game... I agree completely, we need to keep SST alive. You're not just complaining about something you can't fix.
What else can we do? Moaning will do exactly nothing, mongoose haven't engineered this situation.
Anyone fancy doing something really, really big?
Go for a stupidly big game of SST, see how many players we can get in one place, with 1000 points or so each? A rolling scenario to ensure nobody sits out? Maybe something involving separate boards? MI staging rescue missions, plasma bug raids etc... etc.. A great big 24 hour narrative campaign? Maybe linked to something similar in different countries? I started organising this a while back, but the 'big announcement' about evo put it on hold.
How about trying it again?
Here's an idea.... we get together as many players as we can, we create a bug infested world controlled by a group of bug players (maybe Evil could come along with his wasps).
MI players each take a platoon, lead by an NCO.... that's you for the day. Missions run on different tables, story runs from fleet trying to clear the skies, pathfinders clearing the plasma AA to finding a brain to help locate the queen.
Reinforcement would depend on the outcome of each scenario. Players whose character was killed will return at a lower rank.... as the games progress the games become bigger, the players performing best are promoted (maybe some characters that performed well, but died heroically could have survived?).
Ultimately, the days hero ends up as captain for the final showdown, best bug runs the queen..... if the MI did well, this will be above ground, MI taking the initiative, if not, bugs pick the battlefield.
Time wise, I'd suggest the end of August or October half term. (Lets students, school kids play...... also me, I'm a teacher).
Maybe link it to a charity (My school could use it), do a sponsored 24 hour game? I've wanted to do that since reading about 24hrs at carrick mound (Back when GW did that sort of thing).
If we get this off the ground, I've got a stack of unpainted minis laying about.... I bet a lot of players have. Good excuse to get them put together and painted.
Is this something the goose would be interested in?
Anyone else?
SickBunny
Mongoose
I think, as usual, I fall to be the devils advocate... which in this case means defending Mongoose as the general view seems to be rather heavily slanted to the usual negative... but this is always the case with the internet... as complaining is ever easier than admiration... people are always less likely to write their satisfaction than they are the instant whine and complaint...
But to justify my case...
1) Mongoose is not GW or Rackham or Privateer Press: This is a very simple statement. They are not Nearly as sizeable as either one of the big hitters in the biz... Just check the credits for their miniature gaming books. The lists are short and solid. They do not have the twenty sculptors at their beck and call nor a dedicated twentyman group for every aspect of the hobby. They are a small company (by numbers I believe) when compared to others...
2) (And this is an important one, and one I've said many times before) They do -not- play their cards behind their backs: When GeeDub or Rackham produce a game, they begin the production and miniature making months before ever whispering about it to anyone. Mongoose doesnt. They seem to believe into being open and eager and happy about each and every one of their projects. This is something I've always loved about them.
GeeDub doesnt advertice anything ahead of time until they have their warehouses crap full of product, thus it seems they get their stuff out in time most of the times. Rackham does the same as seen by their 'preview' e-letters you get once a week that show the greens of 'future' models, models that are suddenly painted and available next week. Reality is that there are months and months, possibly even years in between the actual making of a model and its final publication. Just look at the date printed into the bottom tabs of GW models when they are released. Most have a date from the previous year.
Mongoose models Dont...
By those two reasons, Mongoose keeps making one mistake that I will never blame them for. They release information as they get it. No other miniature company does that. How many of you knew about WH40k's Apocalypse addition say, a year or two ago? Anyone? Those numbers are rare and far between. But thats how long such a project takes. When Mongoose starts with something new and cool, they come right out and say it. They dont hold it and hide it and delay the announcement 'til they can flood the market... they are gamers like us... they want us to know what they are up to and they want us to get as toys asap, even when they know they have too little produce to fill all our desires...
And so many of you guys dislike them for that...
Well, I, for one, dont...
But to justify my case...
1) Mongoose is not GW or Rackham or Privateer Press: This is a very simple statement. They are not Nearly as sizeable as either one of the big hitters in the biz... Just check the credits for their miniature gaming books. The lists are short and solid. They do not have the twenty sculptors at their beck and call nor a dedicated twentyman group for every aspect of the hobby. They are a small company (by numbers I believe) when compared to others...
2) (And this is an important one, and one I've said many times before) They do -not- play their cards behind their backs: When GeeDub or Rackham produce a game, they begin the production and miniature making months before ever whispering about it to anyone. Mongoose doesnt. They seem to believe into being open and eager and happy about each and every one of their projects. This is something I've always loved about them.
GeeDub doesnt advertice anything ahead of time until they have their warehouses crap full of product, thus it seems they get their stuff out in time most of the times. Rackham does the same as seen by their 'preview' e-letters you get once a week that show the greens of 'future' models, models that are suddenly painted and available next week. Reality is that there are months and months, possibly even years in between the actual making of a model and its final publication. Just look at the date printed into the bottom tabs of GW models when they are released. Most have a date from the previous year.
Mongoose models Dont...
By those two reasons, Mongoose keeps making one mistake that I will never blame them for. They release information as they get it. No other miniature company does that. How many of you knew about WH40k's Apocalypse addition say, a year or two ago? Anyone? Those numbers are rare and far between. But thats how long such a project takes. When Mongoose starts with something new and cool, they come right out and say it. They dont hold it and hide it and delay the announcement 'til they can flood the market... they are gamers like us... they want us to know what they are up to and they want us to get as toys asap, even when they know they have too little produce to fill all our desires...
And so many of you guys dislike them for that...
Well, I, for one, dont...
JoseDominguez
Mongoose
Complaining about people complaining is probably slightly less constructive than the original post though.
The big issue with the long term info is this, I love it, I like knowing what's happening, but it's killed the game off in lots of shops, that can't be disputed.
I can't see anything new being said, the delays suck, it can't be helped, they won't do it again unless they can't help it.
What are we going to do to stop the game from dissapearing in the intervening time?
The big issue with the long term info is this, I love it, I like knowing what's happening, but it's killed the game off in lots of shops, that can't be disputed.
I can't see anything new being said, the delays suck, it can't be helped, they won't do it again unless they can't help it.
What are we going to do to stop the game from dissapearing in the intervening time?
Simply put? If you own it, play it. For my part, I will try and do so more.
From mongoose' POV, I think they should start including it back in S&P again. There used to be a wealth of articles in there - battle reports, painting & modelling. All of that has dropped off.
They need to get the rules out in a book. Even if there are no pre-painted models, it doesn't matter. They card up all the units which are currently available/workable with the models and parts they already make (since they want to eschew army books) and let us play with those. Do some tournaments.
For the life of me, I don't know why everyone has stopped playing. The old rules work. The old models work. The system is still good - everyone just got very sensationalist over the fact that it was changing down the track.
From mongoose' POV, I think they should start including it back in S&P again. There used to be a wealth of articles in there - battle reports, painting & modelling. All of that has dropped off.
They need to get the rules out in a book. Even if there are no pre-painted models, it doesn't matter. They card up all the units which are currently available/workable with the models and parts they already make (since they want to eschew army books) and let us play with those. Do some tournaments.
For the life of me, I don't know why everyone has stopped playing. The old rules work. The old models work. The system is still good - everyone just got very sensationalist over the fact that it was changing down the track.
JoseDominguez
Mongoose
It's human nature...... I was never going to paint all of the caps and pathfinders I had laying around if I could get them pre-paint a few months later. Time is my biggest issue. So we stopped and waited. Lots of groups did.
Can't be helped. A new rule set would be great...... how about something to go with all of the dead stock sitting in games stores. Just enough to be getting on with.
lots of cheap models out there now.
Can't be helped. A new rule set would be great...... how about something to go with all of the dead stock sitting in games stores. Just enough to be getting on with.
lots of cheap models out there now.
JoseDominguez said:
It's already scheduled..Here's your invite. October 13th in Fanwood, NJ, USA.
Big SST game, probably 6,000 points per side. Estimated for 12 players with about 1000 points each on a 4 foot x 24 foot table. Forces provided or bring your own. Rules will be 1st Edition SST or SST:Evo if stat cards are available for everything currently released, or possibly a hybrid of 1st/Evo if not (like just the reaction rules to speed things up). The big SST game is following side by side open WarMachine games with loaner forces available and a small historical miniatures game to be determined. A side table will be running board or card games.
Anyone seriously interested in attending, is seriously invited. Send me a PM for details.
Otherwise I'll post pics when we're done.
SickBunny said:
I don't dislike them for releasing information. I give them credit for running a fairly open company. I do dislike them for consistently over-promising. It's hurting their credibility with both players and stores.
If I didn't like Mongoose and SST, I wouldn't be posting here. There are enough forums on the Intertubes to keep anyone busy 36 hours a day. I post here because I do like SST, and want to see it improved. Or, at this point, published.
