Yenaldlooshi
Cosmic Mongoose
Rules Clarification Request: Basic Training; does it take an entire term or is it just in addition to the first term? I don't see where it says either way but 4 years for basic seems like a long time.
Rules Clarification Request: Basic Training; does it take an entire term or is it just in addition to the first term?
- Thread starter Yenaldlooshi
- Start date
Basic Training takes up your entire first term, though you still get an advancement roll and events for additional opportunities. It is not literally "basic training" as in boot camp and basic MOS schools. It includes all the on the job training and follow up education to make the character qualified to do a "basic" job in all the expected general tasks of that career. Remember, it gives you 5 or 6 skills at 0 compared to the usual term giving you 1 skill at 1.
I would say that it is more a terminology issue than anything else.
I would say that it is more a terminology issue than anything else.
Bense
Cosmic Mongoose
Yes, basic training takes the whole first term.
For your first term you get six level-0 in all skills on the Service Table for your career (Assignment skill table for Citizens and Drifters), plus possibly a skill from an event, plus possibly a skill from Advancement or Comission (not both), plus possibly a skill from reaching Rank 1 in your career, plus you can use the Connections rule for one more.
So minimum six level-0 skills, the maximum six level-0 skills plus another 4 levels in skills.
For your first term you get six level-0 in all skills on the Service Table for your career (Assignment skill table for Citizens and Drifters), plus possibly a skill from an event, plus possibly a skill from Advancement or Comission (not both), plus possibly a skill from reaching Rank 1 in your career, plus you can use the Connections rule for one more.
So minimum six level-0 skills, the maximum six level-0 skills plus another 4 levels in skills.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
The modern day alternative to that is to realize that you'd have more than a thousand 1st term Navy people with Engineering (Power Plant) - 0 operating and performing maintenance on fission reactors.
FreeTrav
Cosmic Mongoose
This isn't bad, but I'd be inclined to modify it just a tad - if the new career's BT provides any skills that the character doesn't have, the character gets them at your level 1.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Going by previous editions, freshman year was basic and advanced training, with advanced where you picked up your military occupational specialty.
Sophomore is usually where the troops were integrated into their units, so that they perform efficiently, and one assumes, combined arms training.
Third year, the unit would usually be deployed.
Combined arms training and deployment should provide opportunities to sharpen your skill set.
Events may allow you to pick up additional skills, as would promotion, which we'll assume happens junior or senior years.
Sophomore is usually where the troops were integrated into their units, so that they perform efficiently, and one assumes, combined arms training.
Third year, the unit would usually be deployed.
Combined arms training and deployment should provide opportunities to sharpen your skill set.
Events may allow you to pick up additional skills, as would promotion, which we'll assume happens junior or senior years.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Using my experience in the US Army as a basis... and please remember that I got out a long time ago... It takes roughly one year for a recruit to go from fresh-off-the-street to basic functionality in a military environment and reasonably able to do their specialty in a supervised environment. This pretty much covers everything up to the 9-month skill schools.
Where the Traveller skill level one comes in is that the new soldier/Scout/Marine/Spacehand is now doing that job on a daily basis for 3 additional years.
Now military skill training is not a full job skill course. Military skill training is teaching a mechanic how to do the maintenance tasks in the manual. If you went to any vocational school for their two-year course on, say, diesel mechanics you'd learn FAR more about diesel engines than a military trainee would in their Basic Training plus six month skill training course. The military trains workers to do basic jobs with close supervision, where the civilian vo-tech is teaching you how to be an employable diesel mechanic who doesn't require nearly the supervision.
Where the Traveller skill level one comes in is that the new soldier/Scout/Marine/Spacehand is now doing that job on a daily basis for 3 additional years.
Now military skill training is not a full job skill course. Military skill training is teaching a mechanic how to do the maintenance tasks in the manual. If you went to any vocational school for their two-year course on, say, diesel mechanics you'd learn FAR more about diesel engines than a military trainee would in their Basic Training plus six month skill training course. The military trains workers to do basic jobs with close supervision, where the civilian vo-tech is teaching you how to be an employable diesel mechanic who doesn't require nearly the supervision.
Yenaldlooshi
Cosmic Mongoose
I guess one of the really tough things in this is that if they have to change careers, they only get one skill at level zero for the whole 4 years or am I wrong and they still get a skill roll that term?
First term of a new Career they get a 0 in a service skill, If they advance they get a skill. They may get a skill based on Rank, and another from an event, so you could potentially get three and a 0 on your first term. +1 more if you use one of your connections. just be ready for the dice gods give you the 0 and screw you on the rest.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's the current iteration of the game mechanics for character generation.
In theory, if you are allowed to join an interstellar polity's military, you'd likely be an outstanding candidate, and your instructors would be veterans, if not elite.
Currently, I'm listening to a story where the Marines selected to be armoured battlesuited assault troops, are mostly really low intelligence humans, nicknamed Rhinos.
Outside the Starship Troopers influence, and CoDominium, it's one reason I had the CAVALRY accept all applicants who are fit enough to perform their given duties, as their right of Confederation citizenship.
In theory, if you are allowed to join an interstellar polity's military, you'd likely be an outstanding candidate, and your instructors would be veterans, if not elite.
Currently, I'm listening to a story where the Marines selected to be armoured battlesuited assault troops, are mostly really low intelligence humans, nicknamed Rhinos.
Outside the Starship Troopers influence, and CoDominium, it's one reason I had the CAVALRY accept all applicants who are fit enough to perform their given duties, as their right of Confederation citizenship.
When you hire on an 18 year old you expect to have to train them to be useful to you and you expect for them to stay with you long enough to recoup your training investment. Much of those 4 years are going to be doing work that benefits the organisation. Each level 0 skill would take at least 8 weeks of training (probably a mix of classroom and on the job) so it probably represent an entire year of training probably spread over the 4 years.
If you stay around, in your second term you are starting to become more useful to the organisation, you have demonstrated loyalty and you'll get extra training. You are mostly working, but gaining on the job experience of specialisms.
If you skip out on an organisation and join another one you are both older (meaning your ability to learn new things may have diminished) and you have established a track record of leaving organisations after they have made a significant investment in your training. That may be why you only get the one level zero skill to make you competent in a general role. You will spend more time working to recoup that investment and to test your loyalty in that first term.
In service organisations you may also have to waste extra time unlearning what you already know as services have their traditions.
If you stay around, in your second term you are starting to become more useful to the organisation, you have demonstrated loyalty and you'll get extra training. You are mostly working, but gaining on the job experience of specialisms.
If you skip out on an organisation and join another one you are both older (meaning your ability to learn new things may have diminished) and you have established a track record of leaving organisations after they have made a significant investment in your training. That may be why you only get the one level zero skill to make you competent in a general role. You will spend more time working to recoup that investment and to test your loyalty in that first term.
In service organisations you may also have to waste extra time unlearning what you already know as services have their traditions.
Skill 0 is defined as "fully trained but lacking experience" so I don't think that's unreasonable. Those guys aren't supposed to be the only engineer on the ship. They are the guys running around doing all the stuff with the Petty Officer or other veteran around should they be needed. Skill 0 is a 3pt advantage over not having the skill. It's the single largest skill boost out there.
It's not like the game gives so many skills that throwing in an extra +1 is going to break anything. But, imho, six skills at 0 is significantly better than the subsequent term's 1 skill at 1 as it is. Plus, that person has a chance for a skill roll from advancement and possibly skills from promotion and events. In the Traveller Navy career, for example, if they make their promotion to go from Rank 0 to Rank 1 (which is EDU 6+ for engineering crew), they get the skill roll plus Mechanics 1 (from gaining Rank 1).
So that Navy recruit after 4 years has a about a 2/3 chance of having Pilot 0, Vacc Suit 0, Athletics 0, Gunner 0, Gun Combat 0, Mechanics 1, +1 Skill roll. And maybe an event based skill. That's pretty solid.
It's popular to act like skill 0 sucks, but it is not intended to be that way. It is a huge leap up from untrained. Mongoose 2e does have an unfortunate (imho) tendency to make task checks like Crossing the Street be 8+, which does match poorly with the game's character creation system. But that's a different topic.
Addendum: The subsequent careers "basic" is kind of meh, but I think that's a game balance thing to keep from making changing careers clearly better than advancing in your current career.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You know what's missing?
The original G.I. Bill ended in 1956. The Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2008 provided veterans with funding for the full cost of any public college in their state. The G.I. Bill was also modified through the passage of the Forever GI Bill in 2017.
The original G.I. Bill ended in 1956. The Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2008 provided veterans with funding for the full cost of any public college in their state. The G.I. Bill was also modified through the passage of the Forever GI Bill in 2017.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
In the nuclear field of you are not a petty officer, you are a screw-up, unless they have fiddled with things in the last 30 years.
Not particularly supervised in the moment, once you've checked out on a station.
We had a guy that counted as -1 on the maintenance roster, because if you sent him to do a job, it took at least two people to figure out what he screwed up. So skill 0 can be very scary.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
When I was in, you had to pay for it like an IRA. But most bases had education assistance liaison offices that administered CLEP examines for free, and discounted subject GRE's through SUNY, Albany when those were a thing.
Sure, because Traveller doesn't model real life. What does it take to make PO3 (E4) in the US Navy? 2 1/2 to 3 years? You aren't guaranteed to make Able Spacehand (E3) in the Imperial Navy in 4 years. You can't make PO3, which is Rank 2, until your second term, so somewhere between 2 and 3x as long as it does in the US Navy.
Also, is your US Navy Nuclear Engineering MOS guy gonna also be a rated as a Helmsman and Ship's Gunnery tech, as well as in personal firearms?Traveller pushes for breadth of skill in your first term. The Imperial Navy clearly doesn't have the narrow MOS structure that the US Navy does (though obviously this is actually designed to make viable player characters more than it is to reflect what the Impies would actually be doing if they were real).
Btw, Traveller uses the Star Trek model where officers actually work for a living instead of just manage folks who do.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you think Skill 0 means. As I mentioned before, a lot of folks act like Skill 0 is that university kid who studied "engineering" that doesn't actually teach any useful engineering in practice. I think that is not a good comparison. I think it's someone who is competently and practically trained with some experience, but not extensive experience. Some guys are gonna be midwits, but that's not reflected in the mechanics. The guy *should* be competent after completing the classroom and practical training.
Rank 1 in Engineering is supposed to be a guy who can run a ship's engineering compartment at a professionally licensed level. The cascade skill structure and the difficulty of the task checks in MgT2e doesn't support that idea in the mechanics, but that's what's supposed to be true.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
To me it means your roboticist isn't trying to administer first aid.
