Rules Clarification: Does TL10 Cloth Armor Stack with a TL12 Vacc Suit?

[rinku]

Does your social status go down as the armour wears down?

It does in Pendragon. You have to keep buying new clothes to stay fashionable (ideally every year).

This is really stretching my memory, and I don't know where I have it stored at home, but I THINK GDW's pre-Traveller RPG En Garde had a rule like that. It might be the first ocurrance of a money->fashion->status rule. Lace & Steel has those sort of rules too, but is a much later RPG.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Crinoline - personal space bubble.

Now is that to keep the peasants away or hide her lovers under the skirt?

 

[Condottiere]

Multipurpose.

 

[rinku]

You could get a fair sized wet bar under there and all.

 

[Condottiere]

You could motorize it.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Some armour does stack. Period. But not all armour. A robot in battle dress? Sure. Biological and android robots are more limited in armour, though. Anything else would need a custom battle dress suit. How about a person with +5 subdermal armor inside a suit? Perfectly fine to stack that.

I could swear one version of the rules (was it in Striker??) made stacked armour with depreciating effectiveness (maybe by making steel equivalent armour ratings increase more geometrically than linearly?). Probably a hallucination.

But... a simpler method would be to make each layer only half as effective, rounding down. And make it DEX-1 for each layer (but again Subdermal Man shouldn't get the DEX mod, so it would get exception prone).

A blanket half for the second strongest layer, a quarter for the third strongest layer, etc. With a full encumbrance load (versus the 1/4 mass) for all the additional layers. That might be simple enough.

If not Matryoshka Man becomes potentially ridiculous. And a Referee should always be looking at a stack as either a 'Not possible for that combination' or a 'Yes, but here are the penalties'.

Why don't you ask Marc for a copy of the CT cd/USB?

Then you can seearch stuff like this instead of relying on vague memories. Or you can just ask me...

"4. Multiple Armor DMs: If a target is protected by more than one type of armor (for example, a soldier in a stone building who is also wearing battle dress), he receives the benefit of both; however, since armor value is determined on a logarithmic scale, the two are not simply added together. The larger armor value is increased by from +1 to +8 (if at all). To determine how much the larger armor value is increased, subtract the smaller armor value from it; using the remainder, consult the armor combination table to determine the modifier.
For example, suppose a soldier is in a building of armor class 25, wearing battle dress of armor class 10. The difference is 15; consulting the armor combination table gives a modifier of +2, so the total armor class is 27."



There is an obvious flaw which needs fixing...

 

[Condottiere]

Or, square root the smaller value.

 

[MasterGwydion]

So wait... If firing in through a building window at someone in full Battledress, do I have to use the Armor of the building as well? If so, does that make targeting the person inside the building a Called Shot since you are only targeting part of what is armored by that building? Then, if the Called Shot is made, then the building's armor doesn't apply, or what? I am confused.

 

[Arkathan]

So wait... If firing in through a building window at someone in full Battledress, do I have to use the Armor of the building as well? If so, does that make targeting the person inside the building a Called Shot since you are only targeting part of what is armored by that building? Then, if the Called Shot is made, then the building's armor doesn't apply, or what? I am confused.

Shooting at them through a window is cover.
Shooting at them through the wall is additive armor.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Shooting at them through a window is cover.
Shooting at them through the wall is additive armor.

I meant if they were fully visible. Also, how is the Armor of a building determined? Also, if someone is 90% submerged in water, like swimming with only their head above the surface, how is that handled? Is that cover or does the water provide armor?

 

[Arkathan]

For cover, use page 78 of the new Core book.
For building armor, use vehicles and extrapolate, unless some suitable system to define building armor is or becomes available.

Water: Lots of variables.
For non-energy weapons:
Are you under water? Armor, as the water tries to rip the bullet apart (underwater mods mitigate this)
Is the water still? Aim for center mass of the reflection and figure out a bonus to hit because your target is now larger in one dimension. (Hit the four foot long reflection of a bullseye and you'll hit the bullseye)
Is there no reflection? Cover/smaller target as the projectile glances off the surface.

Swimming perpendicular to the shooter, who is at a steep enough angle, the body may only benefit from minimal cover.

Gun experts may have more detail here, but for gaming purposes, you don't need to drown in detail.

 

[Geir]

Why don't you ask Marc for a copy of the CT cd/USB?

Oh, I have all that stuff.
The problem is my squishy 3 pound search engine.

 

[MasterGwydion]

For cover, use page 78 of the new Core book.
For building armor, use vehicles and extrapolate, unless some suitable system to define building armor is or becomes available.

Water: Lots of variables.
For non-energy weapons:
Are you under water? Armor, as the water tries to rip the bullet apart (underwater mods mitigate this)
Is the water still? Aim for center mass of the reflection and figure out a bonus to hit because your target is now larger in one dimension. (Hit the four foot long reflection of a bullseye and you'll hit the bullseye)
Is there no reflection? Cover/smaller target as the projectile glances off the surface.

Swimming perpendicular to the shooter, who is at a steep enough angle, the body may only benefit from minimal cover.

Gun experts may have more detail here, but for gaming purposes, you don't need to drown in detail.

Does water count as cover? Does a piece of paper? Does shooting through different kinds of air count as armor or cover? What about in high-pressure atmospheres? Does the bullet travel less distance decreasing the range or is it decreasing accuracy? Is there a modifier for shooting at someone on a high-pressure or high-gravity world if you have only ever fired your weapon in an Earth-type environment? Does glass count as armor? What is its armor rating? What happens with all of these questions when We switch to vehicle-scale or starship-scale weaponry?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Does water count as cover? Does a piece of paper? Does shooting through different kinds of air count as armor or cover? What about in high-pressure atmospheres? Does the bullet travel less distance decreasing the range or is it decreasing accuracy? Is there a modifier for shooting at someone on a high-pressure or high-gravity world if you have only ever fired your weapon in an Earth-type environment? Does glass count as armor? What is its armor rating? What happens with all of these questions when We switch to vehicle-scale or starship-scale weaponry?

Paper is never cover. Cover provides actual protection from damage. It is concealment, perhaps.

Water, if enough of it, is cover. It’s also concealment.

 

[Arkathan]

Does water count as cover? Does a piece of paper? Does shooting through different kinds of air count as armor or cover? What about in high-pressure atmospheres? Does the bullet travel less distance decreasing the range or is it decreasing accuracy? Is there a modifier for shooting at someone on a high-pressure or high-gravity world if you have only ever fired your weapon in an Earth-type environment? Does glass count as armor? What is its armor rating? What happens with all of these questions when We switch to vehicle-scale or starship-scale weaponry?

If I had the answers to those questions, I'd make my own chunky, math oriented and totally not fun game system.

Anything that blocks line of sight is cover. If you have a small target above water, ricochets will cause you to miss... except in the above example of competition shooters using the reflection. A piece of paper is cover, but has no armor. Glass? Pope Mobile.

 

[Terry Mixon]

If I had the answers to those questions, I'd make my own chunky, math oriented and totally not fun game system.

Anything that blocks line of sight is cover. If you have a small target above water, ricochets will cause you to miss... except in the above example of competition shooters using the reflection. A piece of paper is cover, but has no armor. Glass? Pope Mobile.

I have to disagree anything that blocks line of sight it concealment. Cover has to protect some from damage.

 

[Arkathan]

I have to disagree anything that blocks line of sight it concealment. Cover has to protect some from damage.

Hence the strikeouts after reading your post and realizing my error.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Hence the strikeouts after reading your post and realizing my error.

Ah. I see I replied to you after the strikeout and failed to see it. Sorry.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Water is pretty good for reducing bullet damage:

full program, but you have to click the link to watch it on youtube:

 

[MasterGwydion]

Water is pretty good for reducing bullet damage:

full program, but you have to click the link to watch it on youtube:

I loved that episode!