Robot Skills and How the Robot Handbook Cheats on Designs

[Technetium 98]

When you reach level 1, you need to pick one specialty to get level 1, but before that, they're all at 0. Language 0 still works.



I'd classify it the same as different languages having similar roots - you can take an educated guess in Italian if you're familiar with French or Spanish, they're all romance languages - or being familiar with the basics of conjugation or tenses in ways you may not be as a native speaker, but that's getting into another argument entirely: RAW, it still works as Language 0. I'd prefer they use rules that exist as opposed to ones that don't.

And my sheet counts 4 because I specifically wrote that in. The sheet's not built to interpret writing in 'all' as actually meaning four subskills, you're reading too far into it.

 

[Terry Mixon]

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I was unaware of this. Thank you for pointing it out. So, buying Engineering four times would get the skill level in all specialties. Unfortunately, they didn't do that.

I now understand why you changed the cell with the bandwidth, but I would do it this way so you are chrged for all four sets.

 

[Technetium 98]

So, buying Engineering four times would get the skill level in all specialties. Unfortunately, they didn't do that.

... And how do you figure that, exactly?

 

[Terry Mixon]

When you reach level 1, you need to pick one skill to get that specialty in, but before that, they're all at 0. Language 0 still works.

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You are wrong. Getting a skill at 0 does not give all related subspecialties at 0. You have the base skill, Engineering for example, at 0. You don't pick a subspecialty until you have skill 1 in engineer. This idea that a level 0 in any skill gives level 0 in all the subspecialties isn't right.

I'd classify it the same as different languages having similar roots - you can take an educated guess in Italian if you're familiar with French, they're both romance languages - or being familiar with the basics of conjugation or tenses in ways you may not be as a native speaker, but that's getting into another argument entirely: RAW, it still works as Language 0. I'd prefer they use rules that exist as opposed to ones that don't.

And my sheet counts 4 because I specifically wrote that in. The sheet's not built to interpret writing in 'all' as actually meaning four subskills, you're reading too far into it.

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Good luck parsing anything in Trokh from Vilani 1.

It's obvious that we have a basic disagreement on how skill specialties work. I am unswayed by your argument, and you are likewise unswayed by mine. Rather than argue further, I'll leave this here and move on.

 

[Terry Mixon]

... And how do you figure that, exactly?

Because they only spent one bandwidth, so far as I can see. You disagree, I'm sure.

 

[mavikfelna]

Ok, are you saying that if you have the base skill at 0, you have only 1 0 skill level skill for purposes of totalling your level 0 skills? but if you add level 1 to one of the subskills, you now have 3 or 7 level 0 skills on top of the bandwidth 1 from the level 1 skill?
So I have a veri advanced TL12 brain which can have 9 bandwidth total and 3 level 0 skills. If I have Electronics 0 and Engineering 0, i'm good but as soon as I get Electronics (Sensors) 1, I'm now over the limit on 0 level skills cause I have 4?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Assuming that getting a skill package at level 0 did give all subspecialties, which I do not believe it does, putting in the packages for that in the Omega brain overspends the allowed 0 level skills by a wide margin. So, not legal.

 

[Technetium 98]

You disagree, I'm sure.

Considering your evidence is a spreadsheet you filled out? Yes, I do. Look, I have evidence to prove you secretly agree with me!



Refer to that Startek example and the passage about four-to-eight times bandwidth - everything in the book points to 4 Bandwidth.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Ok, are you saying that if you have the base skill at 0, you have only 1 0 skill level skill for purposes of totalling your level 0 skills? but if you add level 1 to one of the subskills, you now have 3 or 7 level 0 skills on top of the bandwidth 1 from the level 1 skill?
So I have a veri advanced TL12 brain which can have 9 bandwidth total and 3 level 0 skills. If I have Electronics 0 and Engineering 0, i'm good but as soon as I get Electronics (Sensors) 1, I'm now over the limit on 0 level skills cause I have 4?

I believe that robots don't get natural subspecialties rolling up. I think the part quoted where they have to be bought is what makes that happen.

 

[J. L. Brown]

When you reach level 1, you need to pick one specialty to get level 1, but before that, they're all at 0. Language 0 still works.

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I seem to recall this as called out as specifically not true for Robots; they have the skills they have explicit Programming & Bandwidth for, nothing 'free'. Any skill/0 (no matter the source) occupies one of the limited skill slots available to a Robot.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Considering your evidence is a spreadsheet you filled out? Yes, I do. Look, I have evidence to prove you secretly agree with me!

View attachment 5625

Refer to that Startek example and the passage about four-to-eight times bandwidth - everything in the book points to 4 Bandwidth.

So that works for engineering and electronics. Not for languages and science. Too many 0 skill packages.

And you have far better handwriting than I do.

Bottom line, I see no reason a robot would get free subspecialties. The book covers that with buying the packages 4 times (or 8 times for science.). That's what my spreadsheet shows, and the -10 in allowed 0 level skill packages.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I seem to recall this as called out as specifically not true for Robots; they have the skills they have explicit Programming & Bandwidth for, nothing 'free'. Any skill/0 (no matter the source) occupies one of the limited skill slots available to a Robot.

This.

 

[Technetium 98]

Assuming that getting a skill package at level 0 did give all subspecialties, which I do not believe it does, putting in the packages for that in the Omega brain overspends the allowed 0 level skills by a wide margin. So, not legal.

You know you can overspend on skill 0, right? It just starts costing 1 Bandwidth - so, an additional 8 Bandwidth. Which would still leave you 2 Bandwidth in the black. Also, the Science skills were raised to 1 - but since that's covered by the aforementioned additional bandwidth, it doesn't actually change anything but cost.

 

[mavikfelna]

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I seem to recall this as called out as specifically not true for Robots; they have the skills they have explicit Programming & Bandwidth for, nothing 'free'. Any skill/0 (no matter the source) occupies one of the limited skill slots available to a Robot.

That makes more sense to me.

 

[Technetium 98]

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I seem to recall this as called out as specifically not true for Robots; they have the skills they have explicit Programming & Bandwidth for, nothing 'free'. Any skill/0 (no matter the source) occupies one of the limited skill slots available to a Robot.

Without a source, I can't really take that as gospel. Besides, this passage contradicts that.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I seem to recall this as called out as specifically not true for Robots; they have the skills they have explicit Programming & Bandwidth for, nothing 'free'. Any skill/0 (no matter the source) occupies one of the limited skill slots available to a Robot.

ADVANCED CAPABILITIES
In addition to Bandwidth available for skill packages, robot brains of Advanced or greater capability have the ability to exceed their programming through installed or acquired skills of level 0. For each point of Computer/X inherent (not expanded) Bandwidth, a robot may have X zero-level skills. If these skills are specified as part of the robot’s design, they require a cost equivalent to the skill’s level 0 package cost; if the skill develops naturally in the course of a robot’s experience, they have no monetary cost.

According to this, no free lunch. Each 0 level skill needs to be accounted for separately.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Without a source, I can't really take that as gospel. Besides, this passage contradicts that.

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Specialization singular. Just like sophonts, any skill level one gets slotted into a single specialization.

 

[Terry Mixon]

You know you can overspend on skill 0, right? It just starts costing 1 Bandwidth - so, an additional 8 Bandwidth. Which would still leave you 2 Bandwidth in the black. Also, the Science skills were raised to 1 - but since that's covered by the aforementioned additional bandwidth, it doesn't actually change anything but cost.

Then they wouldn't be language 3. they'd be language 4. So, they didn't overspend.

 

[Technetium 98]

Specialization singular. Just like sophonts, any skill level one gets slotted into a single specialization.

I was mainly referring to the 'or list (all)' bit. That is what we're worried about, right?

Besides, I think we misread the CRB on this. Refer to that passage about specialties I posted - it refers to Engineer 0 as a skill you can have. Not Engineer (M-Drive) 0, just Engineer.

 

[Technetium 98]

Then they wouldn't be language 3. they'd be language 4. So, they didn't overspend.

It doesn't change the skill. Just the bandwidth it consumes.