# Robot Handbook - Cyborgs

#### kevinknight

##### Banded Mongoose
In the Robot Handbook it is stated on page 89:
"A cybernetic arm is designed like a robot manipulator. For human arms at TL10 and below this is a Size 6 manipulator; at TL11+ it is a Size 5 or smaller manipulator.
Costs for an arm are triple the equivalent of a robot manipulator of the same characteristics, including the cost for its Size and any increases to STR or DEX from the Manipulator Characteristics table on page 26."

On page 26, it states:
"Manipulator Size x (net increase STR) Squared x Cr100"

Also on page 26, there's the following example:
"the maximum STR of the Size 5 manipulator would be STR 18 (9 x 2 for +9) at a Cost of (Cr100 x 5 x 9 x 9) Cr40500."

Following the example and formula on page 26, the cost of a 6 point increase would be Cr100 x 5 x 6 x 6 or Cr18000. Adding in the logic from page 89, then the cost of a 6 point increase for a cyberarm should be Cr54000. However, in every example given, the size of the manipulator is ignored other than in the initial cost of the cyberarm. For example, "A TL11 STR 15 arm, a Size 5 equivalent, costs three times 5 x Cr100 + 6[squared] x Cr100 or 3 x Cr4100 equals Cr12300". So the initial cost is 5 x Cr100 x 3 or Cr1500, making the cost of the STR increase simply 6 x 6 x Cr100 x 3 or Cr10800. Additionally, when you look at the costs of the cyberarm on page 55 of the CSC, they clearly followed this line of thought for their calculations.

So, to sum this up, it appears from all the examples given that you ignore the size of the manipulator when factoring in cyberlimb STR & DEX increases. Is this correct, or are all the examples and the prices in the CSC wrong?

Thanks.

It looks like you are right in that the examples on page 89 appear inconsistent with page 26.
The way it's being shown in the latter examples is that there's the base cost for the size, then separate cost for the STR/DEX increase, and that characteristic increase does not take size into account. Checking my design spreadsheet, the page 26 method was how all the robots were constructed.

So the question is... do we just change the text on page 89 to say that the formula for cybernetics is actually different (a '+' where it was a 'x') than robots? That's the only way to get the prices in the CSC (which in its earlier incarnation predates the robot book) to work.

So I think the next Robot rev should just change the logic on cybernetic limb pricing to match the p. 89 examples.
(Yeah, I did both robots and the CSC update, and so it's my mistake, but that's the easiest fix that doesn't break a bunch of downstream things.)

Okay, sounds good to me! Thanks for the quick response.

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