RHIP? TELL IT TO THE (SPACE) MARINES!

[DAWGIE]

i have noticed something here among SST MI gamers that i find, legal, but disconcerting from the rank and file powersuit trooper point of view.
it goes something more or less like this . . .

PRE-MISSION WORD UP:

LT: "it is to dangerous OUT THERE for me to go into combat wearing a standard issue powersuit, armed with man portable weaponry! i insist on something that will SMA moe bettah!"


SENIOR NCOS: "rajah that, LT! as the senior NCOs in the platoon, we feel that we are also too valuable to risk by going into combat with a standard issue powersuit, armed with man portable weaponry! we, too, insist on something that will SMA moe bettah!"


JR NCOS, RANK/FILE TROOPERS: "and your point is?"


LT/SENIOR NCOS: "well we are more important FEDERATION assests than you lower ranking troops! we_are_not expendible! you_are_ expendable!"


JUNIOR NCOS/TROOPERS: "SEZ YOU!"


LT/SENIOR NCOS as they duck/dodge a torrent of tossed paper wads with "I (BLEEPING) RESIGN!" printed on them along with the concerned soldier's signature, date and time: "WOTZ WRONG WITH YOU LOT? WE NEED THE PROTECTION/FIREPOWER OFFERED BY AN M8 OR M9 SUIT!"


JUNIOR NCOS/TROOPS: "WRONG!"


LT HASTILY contacting the bridge of the FLEET vessel boosting toward the targeted planet" BRIDGE? OIC SHIPS TROOPS HERE! IS IT TOO LATE TO CANCEL THAT OP? WHY? WELL WE SEEM TO HAVE HAD MORALE FAILURE AND RESIGNATION BY THE JUNIOR NONCOMS AND TROOPERS OF MY PLATOON! THEY WILL NOT DROP!"


(LOUD, ANGRY, BACKGROUND VOICES: "HELL, NO! WE WON'T GO!"


in the modern and futuristic military, there is a place for RHIP, but it does not include the medieval concept of better arms/armor for the leadership of soldiers going into combat! leaders LEAD and FIGHT wearing the same basic gear as their TROOPS!

this INDEPENDENT LEADER TOYS HAVE ACCESS TO BETTER WEAPONRY AND ARMOR THAN THE REST OF THE SCUM SIMPLY DOES NOT FLY IN THE FEDERATION MILITARY CONCEPT!


NO CONSCRIPTION! AN ALL VOLUNTEER FORCE! ESPECIALLY ONE WHEN ANY SOLDIER MAY RESIGN AT ANY TIME OR PLACE SHORT OF ACTUAL COMBAT OPS . . .

hell if it was a conscripted army/fleet, this concept will not work with modern soldiers.


sooo i am curious as to how many folks OUT THERE actually send MINIME intp harms' way in basic powersuits, and not marauders or exos, unless the whole unit is outfitted with them?



DAWGIE

 

[Makoto]

All is fine, however You seem to ommit the fact that both marauders and exos are a pretty rare and valuable assets, so there's nothing surprising thet the best and most experienced troopers (ie. junior officers and senior NCOs - do remember that fluff-wise they're the most experienced men within the platoon) are to handle them.
Plus do remember this makes officers double the fire-magnets, especially that they can no longer use their troops as screen, given their new size. Furthermore neither exo nor marauder offers anything close to near-immunity, they're rather fragile as soon as they're within warrior/tanker... heck, anything apart from cliff mite/rippler/blister (or blaster? can never remember which one has the d6... ^^" ) range.

And last but not least this is just a simulation, not real life

 

[Don_Silvarro]

Don't hit me with a chair or anything, but I always thought the UCF army isn't all-conscripts... As I see it, you can either take the 2+ year service in the military and then return to your everyday life as a Citizen, or take a professional military carieer (officer training etc.) - so IMO it's quite logical why professional career officers get extra kit over rank and file troopers.

I'm unsure about it though, I know it was how it worked in the movie, I've read the book like a hundred years ago and can't remember it right.

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

Less pressing the shift button would be nice.

1) Not always the NCO/LT have the for eg. M8/9. Normal CAP's can ride them too.
2)I think that the option to give LT/NOC in exo is good, becouse it sticks to the original novel.

 

[roughneck GIR]

Well my MI battle group consists of a platoon of cap squads and a lami platoon, chas, and marauder platoon mostly for support

 

[mthomason]

I nearly always go for "CGI Canon", with Marauders being one or two guys out of the squad if they're there. Upgrading the Lt/NCO just feels like it's breaking the spirit of the game background, so I try and avoid it. I'll discard those ideals if I'm playing in a tournament, though

 

[gorkamorka]

You have a good point. Even better, troops would say: well, if your so special, Im sure you won't mind holding the flank by yourself. We have some " menial " work over in the sick bay with a couple of fleet nurses.


I do find a few of the options are starting to lead tword the " uber hero" with bigger gun. Named characters can't be too far behind. Where's Dax, and Rico?

 

[mthomason]

Named characters can't be too far behind. Where's Dax, and Rico?

Rico is in the Roughnecks Army Book (and Roughnecks Boxed Set)

 

[Avenger6]

My platoon Lt and Sgt. hit the dirt in power armor. If I need to I reinforce the squad with a trooper in an M9. My Squad Sgt. and Cpl. are also in power armor. In the real world platoon leaders LEAD, ON THE BOUNCE, FOLLOW ME! Not go ahead I'll stay back in the big suit and see how things turn out.

 

[DAWGIE]

:lol:


there are no conscripts in the FEDERATION armed forces . . .


and yeppers this is indeed a game played on the tabletop . . .


but the idea of the LT and SENIOR NCOs, the powersuit platoon leaders, would drop in those big M8/M9 suits bristling with armor and shootiness while the other smucks drop in powersuits, is one that i will not do!


ditto for exo armor for leaders while the majority of the troops wear powersuits.


if any leader(s) showed up with this attitude, i do think the level of respect that they are held in by the other poor smucks would botttom out a FTL speed . . .


instead of a rather short (if any) line forming at troop embarkation stations for a rendezvous with DEATH at some disputed barricade, i think a longer line would be forming for a rendezvous with nurses/medics in the sick bay!


and all the while that catchy tune, BALLAD OF THE SICK BAY RANGER, plays softly in the background!


i have no argument with the most experienced grunts at squad level being issued available M8/M9 suits when the mission calls for it.


i have no argument with the entire squad or platoon being kitted out in M8/M9 suits either.


and i do like the idea of entire MI squads and platoons going into combat wearing the exo armor (which is similiar in concept to the RAH STARSHIP TROOPER powered armors). in fact i am going to have a platoon of exo-armor trooper later next year, for this very reason.


good discussion.


DAWGIE

 

[impala]

What does RHIP mean?

 

[Sgt. Brassones]

What does RHIP mean?

Relativistic Heavy Ion Physics? :wink:

 

[CudaHP]

Dawgie,

Look at history.! Try each of the World Wars. check where most if not all higher ranking officers spent the war. That would be Majors and above (Field grade through Command Grade).
Trust me, they were not riding bulldozers covering minefields with enough soil so tanks could travel over them, like my father. (He had three Caterpillers blown out from under him in one work day!!!!) (He was a combat Engineer, a draftee, and landed on Omaha beach at D-day, H-hour, M-minute plus three minutes. Damn proud of my father, May he rest in peace.

Not even a 2Lt normally slogged along with the point man in the scout squad.

Try studying a little Military history and use both tactical and strategic thinking.

There has always been a level of disparity between command and grunt, at least until you get to the squad level and below, i.e. team level.

It might not appeal to your sense of self importance in the universe, but it is reality. Each of us as civilians regards ourself as irreplaceable.

Yeah, you would go to sick bay!!! No discipline, no guts, no glory. You would not even make it through MI Boot Camp. Further you would not have made it through any level of the training I went through with that attitude.

FREEZE!!!! Fire ant hill or not. If you have not read the original book from Heinlein that will not make any sense to you.

Honestly, have you read the Canon book? (You claim to have read it) If so why cop a civvy attitude related to an MI matter. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You would most obviously put your most experienced and highly trained personnel in those Fire Magnets of destructive tactical goodness; not the Newby replacement fresh out of Camp Curry.

By your own statements, which your moral sense apparently demands, you have very few options!!!!

You WILL NOT take advantage of upgrades to Marauders and Exo-suits unless you do it by whole Platoons/Squads (apparently).

By that logic you will have pure LAMI squads, pure PAMI squads, pure Marauder squads, pure Exo-suit squads etc. etc. But even given that you will only have your CPT, LT, and NCOs in Power Armor :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Ever read the rules for Out of Command????

By your own statements you would prefer to field a relatively crippled force rather than violate some vague personal moralistic code.

I suppose George Patton riding by in a Sherman tank should have caused all of his infantry troopers to run whining to the nearest Aid Station?

Naaah. That is not how an elite military force reacts at all. Been there done that, Esprit 'de Corps. That is what makes or breaks an elite force.

The MI are by definition an Elite force.

 

[lastbesthope]

What does RHIP mean?

Relativistic Heavy Ion Physics? :wink:

Rank Has It's Priveliges

LBH

 

[DAWGIE]

WELL, CUDA, i most say that when i was a soldier_walking point_ i did not have any LT or PSG for company. just the lead squaddies were behind me and my slack man, nothing higher than a SSG or lower than a slick sleeve private were in the squad.


but in the field we all have the same issue clothing, basic weaponry, steel pot/booney hat (or a locally made replacement for the boonie hat, ate the same crappy food, drank the same crappy water and suffered through the same crappy circumstances . . .


although i admit that after 6 monthys of a combat infantry assignment, LTs and CPTs were re-assigned to staff jobs at the base camp, while SFC and down slogged on through their tour till it ended, or they were killed, or badly wounded /returned to the STATES, wounded the maximum number of times to qualify for a rear area assignment ( 3-5 times, bandaide injuries do not count) got sick enough to return to the STATES, etc. twelve long months for a grunt GI, as i recall it.


and in the field all officers/NCOs ate after the troops ate, except at base camp, where they did not have to wait in line for chow

you know, you have the biggest balls in the universe! really! no one can ever compare with your amazing life as a soldier and civvie!
as a mere human soldier and civvie, i would never ever compare life experiences with yours! i am totally outclassed! i surrender dear!


FREEZE! the remain/silent/even die if wounded when this command is issued in the book SST. do not pop up and punch your DI after disobeying orders! this is the fast track for the rapid end to an honorable MI enlistment and all of the bennies that follow . . .


and in the SST book, CUDA, there were three variants of powered armor : MARAUDER, the heavy fighting armor of the basic MI NCO and trooper; SCOUT, the lighter, faster version used by MI assigned to recon units; COMMAND, officer issue only armor, not as light as SCOUT, not as heavy as MARAUDER, with some officer only tech included as i recall.


i was discussing platoon level combat officers and NCOs in the SST UNIVERSE from MGP when i wrote my little piece by the way, not any battalions, regiments, or divisions of MI.


i have no problem with a powersuit platoon having a few MARAUDER armors assigned to it, especially for use by the squaddies as as fireport assets for the platoon. this is perfectly legal, and does not require me to use my independent LT and senior NCOs as operators. i will be adding as son as i can, but todate i have had to struggle along with just a powersuit platoon, and an LAMI platoon for the small games i have been playing.


i want to be able to field an exo suit platoon some time next year: it appeals to the SST concept of MI that i have.


and CUDA, i would never consider challenging your knowledge of written military history! again, dearest, i surrender without a fight!

i am glad to know your DAD was a combat engineer in EUROPE in WW II; mine was a MARINE, serving as a RIFLE-BAR grunt in the PACIFIC WAR and ending up in the occupation of JAPAN after VJ DAY. he was a private and rose to the rank of SGT.



me? i too began as a private and rose to the rank of SSG before i got my honorable discharge. and after that i was a civvie.


DAWGIE

 

[combatdroid113]

Its just a game folks - a scifi game at that.

 

[CudaHP]

Well Dawgie you can put it away now.

If you read my post I said what you repeated. . . no LT on point got it.

I started as a private E-1 in Basic Training went up through the ranks to SSG it took three years one day.

I later got my promotion to 2LT. I served in various theatres of Operation,
three Stateside tours for training, two Overseas.

That was not the point Dawgie. The point was. we are discussing a game and you are trying to apply your apparent real world attitudes to a game where you would be hurting yourself tactically by using your force made up the way you stated.

Of course, the assigned equipment according to TO & E in the military is the same. i.e. M-16 so many rounds of ammo, grenades etc. throughout your squad.

From your statement your MOS was that of a Basic Infantryman, and such is true in most Basic Infantry Units in most Military Organizations throughout the world.

Honest question now, not ragging on you or anything. Didn't anyone in your unit ever avail themselves of equipment to help their survival not covered by the TO & E.

One job I held was as the Arms Sergeant for my unit and we acquired whatever we felt we needed to get along. I carried and used the best equipment I could get, wherever I was stationed at any given time.

The same applied, once I became an Officer. I always covered my ass and my men's asses in all situations.

I spent 3 years 1 month 11 days on one of my overseas tours during 1967 to 1970. Less on the other Overseas tour, and a good amount of time Detached from my main Duty Station (he Pentagon) for duty in various overseas locations, most assignments from 6 to 9 months in duration.

After my full time Active Military I spent several years in the California National Guard. I Actually have two separate Honorable Disharges, kinda weird isn't it? In addition I have a file copy of the Official Notification of Acceptance of my Resignation of my Regular Army Commission as a 2nd Lt.

Having stated all the above boring history (no one really gives a damn it will soon be 30 years ago) I will now get back to the point.

By your own statement now you admit you will in fact use the Marauders and Exos, so which is it. According to the MI book only certain individuals within the Powersuit Platoon have the option to upgrade from PAMI to Marauder or Exosuit.

I no longer have my rulebooks, gave them (and about $1,000 worth of SST figures) all away to a deserving local young man eith a family to support, but isn't it primarily the LT, NCOs and a max of two others per squad who have the option of upgrading to a special weapons type? Which would include the Exos and/or Marauders.

None of this has anything to do eith the shear silliness of your comments that MI (as Elites) would report to sick bay if their CO had different equipment than they did.

None of my troops ever begrudged me using my more accurate shooting Rifle Pistol or anything else. They knew I hit what I shot at, so that was fine for them.

Not to put too fine a point on it Dawgie but when I discussed Elite type training and your inability to get through it, I was using the generic "you" not the Dawgie you.

Basic and AIT Infantry were a snap. Tigerland at Fort Polk was no big thing, hell I helped with the hand labor during its initial construction.

Attitudes like yours are exactly why I have elected to pursue other games rather than SST. Why because I am tired of pathetic individuals such as yourself, trying to turn everything on this board into some sort of argument.

Every where I have seen you post Dawgie, it is the same thing. You always try to start Flame Wars. Enjoy yourself, and I am not your dear nor your dearest.

As far as comparing life experiences, try this sippo, age 54 major stroke, learn to walk at talk again, as well as read and write. Due to lack of tactile sensations in my left side and hands can no longer touch type, I have to type with right hand only. Cannot use voice translation software as speaking voice is too inconsistent for my computer to interpret.

Missing a piece of my brain right rear quadrant slightly smaller than a golf ball. Follow that at age 55+ with a heart attack with BP spiking above 210 for 4-6 hours followed by three separate Angioplasty proceedures to clear the blockage to the heart.

So yes, Dawgie as the Chinese say, "May you live in interesting times".

Farewell, Dawgie. Cuda Over and Out.

 

[DAWGIE]

CUDA, i did not post to start any "wars" but because of something i noticed in the rules.

any "wars" are your to start, fight and finish.

yes, a lot of us "acquired" non TOE "stuff" in order to increase our life expectancy and comfort levels. i think any combat vet would do so.

yes, you have had a harder time than me, but all is not joy in my world either, CUDA. i am 59 now, have disable for many years, and am currently in a power wheel chair. i finished my six years, but was on the track to SFC when i decided i was not interested in a 3rd combat tour in 6 years (especially since i looked around and saw sooo many senior NCOs who had never been to the RVN once). i went from PFC to fire team leader, squad leader, and acting platoon sergeant (with no officer) all in the boonies during ops. no, i do not view myself as being put upon by life either. shit happens, and it happened to me.

and the best thought of all this (too me is): the majority of "my" guys made it through their tours inspite of the best efforts of the enemy and the USA higher chain of command (too many incompetent officers, brown-nosers/ring thumpers/ticket punchers and CYA /JTYA oriented senior NCOs) to prevent this. we also completed out missions, inspite of the best efforts of the enemy and the USA, too. we fought for ourselves, each other, and the unit, not the ARMY, the FLAG, the folks back home.

now back to the SST game universe.

but the "acquition of a ba-zillion dollar " marauder or exo-armor would be just a little hard to do and to conceal from higher chain of command.


yes, i will used MARAUDER armor when i get some, but not as "rides" for LT and senior NCOs; i will use mine as a combined "MARAUDER" squad, with assigned junior NCO/grunt operators as PLATOON assets.


instead of continuing the conversation after being to to "talk and shut up" in the same sentence by you (over and out), i will end my transmission to you with a "ROGER, that: DAWGIE, OUT".

 

[tneva82]

if any leader(s) showed up with this attitude, i do think the level of respect that they are held in by the other poor smucks would botttom out a FTL speed . . .

Okay so rather than having extra firepower provided by marauder or exo-suit trooppers will rather just insist on marauder suit/exo-suit left into the ship just so that lietnaunt/NCO will be wearing power suit? You don't expect those rare and valuable things to be handled out to any private now do you?

 

[Wolfslord]

First post here for me

I don't see any problem with officeres wearing special or better equipment. According to the book, the MI highly values a solid chain of command. Therefore it makes sense to me, that an higher-ranking officer should stay alive as long as possible. That's a reason (in addition to his skills and experience) to give him a better armour, like a marauder or exosuit. An officer should be respected for many apects (way of commanding, experience, skill and so on), but I don't see why he should be less for not wearing the same equipment as his squad. Normally he risks his life at the front line in the same way the rest does, so he's not hiding somewhere. I would rather have my lieutenant support my squad with the firepower (he can use to its best cause of his experience) and stay alive to give good orders (that keep me alive) in e.g. an exosuit.