Revised Playtest Scout Rules

[MongooseMatt]

Just to let you all know, we have updated the Scout rules in Journal 1. If you have already downloaded a copy, you should be getting an email soon telling you a revised version is available (if you have set your account to 'don't both me with emails' you can go ahead and re-download anyway ).

If you haven't yet downloaded a copy, the scout rules add a new dimension to games, with specialised ships able to help or hinder other vessels. The article contains plenty of new scout ships for you to get your teeth into, so what are you waiting for?

Work has already begun on Journal 2, which we are aiming for an October release.

 

[scuy]

Cool, rereading it, but what exactly was changed?

 

[Captain Jonah]

Lets have a look at the new rules then.

Jamming:
Remove 2 AD from a weapon system. That’s going to make the Feds unhappy when its Photons. Or make the ISC or Hydrans have kittens when its Hellbores or PPDs or any other low AD big multi hit weapon. With most races they have big enough blocks of Phasers to lose 2AD. Smaller stuff and a lot of Gorn with 1AD phasers do better but it still hits the 2AD blocks on the bigger Gorn ships. Less of an impact with Disruptors. Stops 2AD of drones which requires a separate channel to the weapons but a ship can lose 2AD of a weapon AND 2AD of Drones.
Question. Does this block 2AD of the Feds combined Drone racks or is it just offensive fire?

Defensive Jamming. Bad wording, needs the word “ONE” adding “any enemy ship attacking it must lose two Attack Dice from any ^^^ weapon system”

Counter Jamming. Does the wording mean you need LOS to both the targeted friendly ship AND the enemy scout. I would have thought LOS on a friendly to remove a hostile jam or LOS on the enemy ship or scout to remove an enemy beneficial one. An example here please.

Drone Control and Recon as before.

The Kzinti must have really been complaining a lot about the last rules.

So anyway anti Drone is now a 2AD per ship, enough to stop the drone fire from most everyone except the Drone heavy ships or the entire Kzinti fleet.
The ability to add a 4th ship to Drone fire combined with reducing defensive Phaser fire by 2AD is going to rain on the non ADD races, erm like me really. Stripping 2AD of Photons per Fed ship is going to make the Feds even more Phaser boats as reloading becomes even less of a priority in a scout environment.
Blocking 2AD from a full Plasma strike isn’t much of a worry so offensively the plasma races are not hit that badly. Defensively it’s worse since even with a big scout we still let through up to 2AD per ship from three ships and probably another 4AD from a Drone ship, Plus two Phasers down in counter Drone fire.

Overall for my side of the verse it’s not so bad apart from the furballs or a Drone heavy Klingon or Fed though a chance of meeting them makes a scout very usefull for the Plasma side. Blocking two photons from a number of Fed ships with a scout two or three is taking an awful lot of Fed firepower away making a Fed defensive scout critical.

 

[richardcarr2]

In the counter jamming section:

It may instead remove any bonus Stealth a ship is gaining from Stellar Debris
or any Stealth possessed by a Pirate of Orion ship.

Does that apply to Orion ships that are cloaked too? Or only the usual 6+ stealth?

 

[McKinstry]

In the counter jamming section:

It may instead remove any bonus Stealth a ship is gaining from Stellar Debris
or any Stealth possessed by a Pirate of Orion ship.

Does that apply to Orion ships that are cloaked too? Or only the usual 6+ stealth?

As best as I can remember, the rules do not allow the Orions to cloak.

 

[richardcarr2]

The ok6 playtest rules give an optional +25 points to add cloak, and it has been memtioned previously that Orions will be able to buy cloaks for their ships.

 

[Nerroth]

Jamming:
Remove 2 AD from a weapon system. That’s going to make the Feds unhappy when its Photons. Or make the ISC or Hydrans have kittens when its Hellbores or PPDs or any other low AD big multi hit weapon.

That could perhaps lead to one of two things:

*the new rules needed to handle such weapons could be given some sort of "EW-resistant" modifier (perhaps one that reduced the AD by 1 instead of 2 per function), but only if necessary,

or

*Those fleets will simply have to take their own scouts by default, as you suggest for the Federation.


Also, to clarify, are the numbers for the Scout Trait based on each ship's EW rating in Federation and Empire, or is there another method used to port the degree of effectiveness over from one system to another?

 

[McKinstry]

The ok6 playtest rules give an optional +25 points to add cloak, and it has been memtioned previously that Orions will be able to buy cloaks for their ships.

Where are the OK6 playtest rules?

 

[Rambler]

Since illumination was removed it seems an Orion under cloak is untouchable by a scout. So the cancel stealth would only apply to a uncloaked Orion's innate steath score of 6. Also it seems if a Orion is hiding in a dust cloud you can only remove either the terrain stealth score or the orion stealth score not both. You have to choose.

OK6 playtest ruled seemed to have only been given to people that have the model it seems.

 

[Asguard101]

Did they change anyof the costs for Scout Ships?

 

[Captain Jonah]

The Kzinti war destroyer scout now costs 160 down from 180.

In terms of the scout ability to remove 2AD of a weapon having a much higher impact on high multi hit weapons such as Photons/Hellbores or PPDs.

This is something that should be considered now as the scout rules are being decided. I know its a long time in the future but some preliminary ideas as to PPDs and hellbores should have been drawn up.

I have said before how important it is that the rules be cohesive and inclusive. You cannot have sloppy rules now then add new rules to counter them latter when a new weapon arrives then add other rules to counter the changes because something else changes.

The scout rules need to be as clear as possible now and also as future proof as possible now.

If we are writing new weapon rules which change or negate existing rules then we quickly go from a few pages of rules and end up playing FC or SFB.

Without knowing how the new major weapons will work (don’t forget TR beams) we cannot be specific so the scout rules must be generally balanced. If the Hellbores and PPDs are multi AD weapons with a multi hit damage then its not so bad, a weapon with 4AD doing multi hit 3 is far less hurt than a weapon doing 2AD multi hit 6. One weapon has its firepower halved, the other is negated completely.

If the scout rules remain as removing 2AD of a weapon system then the game designers for every future race have no choice but to make all new weapons multi AD. Deciding that Hellbores are going to be 1AD multi hit 6 means a scout can cripple the long range firepower of a Hydran fleet by blocking most of its Hellbore fire.

That is what must be considered carefully now. The scout rules will have an impact on every rule not yet written and every weapon not yet introduced.

 

[McKinstry]

So what is the play sequence? Declare what scouts channels are dedicated for what purpose during movement and apply as need arises in firing?

 

[deadshane]

In the case of the Federation...wouldn't that effect on the photons simply mean that you're forced to spread your photon salvo over two turns?

Normally, a Fed Cruiser will unload his torps and reload next turn.

Instead, against a scout, you'll have to ration out your torps, two this turn, two next turn, then reload.

Is this a correct assumption?

Or, is the wording such that, after having your attack dice in photons lowered to 2 dice, if you fire two photons you've "fired off all your attack dice in photons" and need to reload?

I'd get up and look in my rulebook for anal interpretations, but it's on the other side of the house and I'm sick as a dog in bed today.

 

[Tuladin]

In a game I am playing right now, my scout has 4 crew crits and can't do Special Actions - does that mean it can't use its Scout abilities too?

 

[MongooseMatt]

In a game I am playing right now, my scout has 4 crew crits and can't do Special Actions - does that mean it can't use its Scout abilities too?

Scouting is not a Special Action.

However, it can be lost through reducing traits...

 

[Captain Jonah]

EW in SFB changed your chance to hit. You fired your weapons but at a penalty on the dice roll.

Blocking could be taken as meaning that you cannot fire or that you fire but two AD automatically miss. That’s a “MATT” question.

Still in Deadshane’s example if you have two Photons blocked and fire two you cannot fire the other two next turn if the scout is still blocking you since you have two photons blocked and only two ready photons. Which every way it works (prevent firing or auto miss) it still stops a lot of Fed firepower.

The wording needs to be cleared up. But then that could be said for most of the rules from my point of view as I am a rules nightmare for ref or player loopholes :twisted: :wink:

 

[Tuladin]

In a game I am playing right now, my scout has 4 crew crits and can't do Special Actions - does that mean it can't use its Scout abilities too?

Scouting is not a Special Action.

However, it can be lost through reducing traits...

Thanks. I wasn't sure because the new rule states that you use Scout abilities instead of using a Special Action. We thought you might lose that ability if you didn't have a Special Action to replace.

Thanks again for clearing that up for us!

 

[Myrm]

Thanks. I wasn't sure because the new rule states that you use Scout abilities instead of using a Special Action. We thought you might lose that ability if you didn't have a Special Action to replace

Actually that's how I'd read it to - that's the usual terminology I see in rules - if you lose the ability to do X, and Y replaces X then normally I'd expect that losing the ability to do X would also lose Y....

If this is the case then a change to 'if it has not performed a special action' is a better phrase.