REVISED: Current PL, Points or Diff PL?

[katadder]

but the majority still want a PL system.
in fact the people who want change probably just want the changes in balance to make sure PL system works.

on the pure pts versus PL system thread the PL system won out there too. either thread points is not winning.

 

[Abraxas]

either thread points is not winning.

I don't recall ever saying it was :roll: .

 

[lastbesthope]

Was Gideon commanding an Explorer at that point?

Yeah, I believe he wasn't even a Captain during the Civil War, he was on board the Cerberus in 2259 when the Hunter blew it up. By ACtA the movie he was commanding an Explorer yes, but thats some eight years after. Which considering he was an Ensign on the Cerberus is a pretty damn good level of advancement.


Nick

You're right, I've been dipping in and out of so may universes at so many points in the last few days I got mixed up.

The EA captain who wishes they'd helped Sheridan in the Civil War was the captain who tyook command of the ill fated Victory in the ACTA movie.

Not another continuity issue? :lol: Im shocked :lol:

No, an LBH error, though it's nice to think that someone thinks JMS would screw up rather than me :lol:

LBH

 

[Celisasu]

he's STILL arguing the same point! :x

so Orcs & Gobbos? Haven't looked in detail at the new book yet. All I know is the models are cool, the new Black orcs

I was staring at Skarsnik and Gobbla myself. Now that's a beautiful model. How can you not like a giant man eating fungus monster?


And going on topic briefly, in the end I want a balanced game. PL or points I'd be happy as long as it's reasonably balanced(perfect 100% perfection is extremely unlikely but if we can get close it'll be nice). Personally I think a point system would be better, but whatever works as long as they get it to work.

 

[tneva82]

so Orcs & Gobbos? Haven't looked in detail at the new book yet. All I know is the models are cool, the new Black orcs

From what I have heard the army list is one of the best made by GW in terms of internal balance(for a change...). So far haven't heard much of a complaints about the list itself(though wonder how it would work in all-goblin force...That's what I would love to command Gobbos, gobbos, gobbos and some more gobbos. 400+ models in 2k army. Swarm the enemy and laugh when terror sends 100+ models fleeing in one turn )

Not sure how well they suit for powergaming but if that's not your cup of tea then no problems there.

 

[tneva82]

(perfect 100% perfection is extremely unlikely

Replace unlikely with impossibility.

As long as scenario, terrain and opposing armies(plus any other factor that I can't think of right now) can vary there can be no 100% perfect balance.

 

[Balance]

Jumping Jesus, GW's points system doesn't work based on a formula, it is the same as Mongoose's ie playtesting. Full Thrust is the only formula version I know of and that is flawed too

DP9's Heavy Gear used a formula-based system as well. It wasn't bad, but it could be broken. When I was active on the Heavy Gear mailing list I remember the veterans had a set of semi-official guidelines for designs to help keep things reasonable and prevent either abuses of the system (taking flaws of dubious value) and keep the 'feel' right.

 

[Balance]

With ACTA I can choose fleets in minutes

I think that's a big advantage. It would be even bigger if I got to try the campaign rules at some point.

 

[Jhary]

Maybe if some Breakpoint are aded woud the PLSystem work better.
Like Sub PL
Line - below avarage PL fill in gaps you get two for the prize of one
Heart - Standart just avarage for this PL the Heart of the fleet for normal Prize
Home - The best of the best and Prototyps plus 50% of the normal cost

 

[lastbesthope]

Maybe if some Breakpoint are aded woud the PLSystem work better.
Like Sub PL
Line - below avarage PL fill in gaps you get two for the prize of one

Your Line option is, in most cases, equivalent to moving the ship down one PL, in terms of cost to buy..

LBH

 

[Jhary]

its just an idea to work with. the fine tunig is not my job. :wink:

 

[Mr. Neutron]

There is a real simple answer to this: Use both PL and Points.

Each ship has both a PL and a Point cost.
A PL and a Point Total are set for each battle.
The Ships of Lower Priorty then the battle have their point cost reduced by some number.
The Ships of the same PL as the battle use their listed cost.
The Ships of Higher PL have their point cost increased by some number.

If the point costs and increase/decrease #'s are kept to the 00, 25, 50, 75 ending number, then the math will be very simple.

This allows balance between ships of the same PL while keeping the effect that PL has on the game.

Setting the points cost will prove challenging, but it can be changed if found to be wrong. And a basic formula can be used to determine the "base" point cost for the ship (manuverability, AD, Hull etc could be worked into a simple formula.)

I say, if you have the chance to do so, why not use the Best of Both Worlds?

 

[cordas]

I say, if you have the chance to do so, why not use the Best of Both Worlds?

Or the worst of both.... I don't think it will really make much of a difference. Whatever system is used some people are going to say is broken, and some ships will prove that its broken.

 

[lastbesthope]

There is a real simple answer to this: Use both PL and Points.

I really can't see any way that the method you describe can be described as simple, not only will it double the arithmetic of your fleet choices. It will just give people 2 sets of values to bicker about the imbalance of.

LBH

 

[Jhary]

Put every ship on a papercounter and drawn them out of a bowl.

 

[Mr. Neutron]

There is a real simple answer to this: Use both PL and Points.

I really can't see any way that the method you describe can be described as simple, not only will it double the arithmetic of your fleet choices. It will just give people 2 sets of values to bicker about the imbalance of.

LBH

As has been pointed out, when has there ever been a game system that rules/points bickering did not happen in? Maybe CandyLand?
And if you think that doing a whole 2 calculations is not simple, you need to go back and question the adminitrators at the educational institution you recieved your diploma from.

 

[Jhary]

Lasbesthope wrote

I really can't see any way that the method you describe can be described as simple, not only will it double the arithmetic of your fleet choices. It will just give people 2 sets of values to bicker about the imbalance of.

Your Line option is, in most cases, equivalent to moving the ship down one PL, in terms of cost to buy..

Ok what then this not working Pl system we have right now?
Where a superbeam monster with hull 6 72 damage 80 crew and Intercepors is the same PL with an Hull4 ship that has 20 Damage and 20 crew?

Is this youre idea of balanced fleets?

 

[lastbesthope]

@ Mr NEtron, OK, maybe it still would be simple, but it is doubling the complexity of creating and choosing a fleet.

LBH

 

[Darzoni]

Limit the variations on hulls to avoid over powered options.
Be stricter on in service times
Place a limit on the max or min numbers that can be taken of a particular ship.

Limitations on the Hull Variants is something that can be determined and enforced by a cohesive gaming group. A mechanical limitation seems redundant, as players may want to invent their own set-piece scenarios.

It is already incumbent upon the players to enforce In-Service dates. Most choose not to in my experience.

The maximum and minimum numbers placed on the number of times a ship can be taken is also something that a cohesive gaming group can deal with. I see no need for such a thing to be enforced in the mechanics.

 

[Valen is my name]

Points actually won!

not that anything will change though