Revised Chronos Fregatte

Galatea

Mongoose
I don't think there is any discussion about this ship being the crapiest escort vessel Earthforce ever got and probably it's the worst escort vessel in the entire game.

So I sat down and came up with this. Since it's called an "attack frigate" most of the firepower is focused at the front.
I think it's a vessel worth taking but not overpowered.
The weaknesses of the design are; it's still sluggish, not very agile and doesn't have that much hitpoints.


Chronos Frigate (revised)

Speed: 8
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6

Damage: 16/3
Crew 18/5
Troops: 2

Craft: none
Special Rules: Anti Fighter 4, Interceptors 2

Railgun 15" T 8 AP,DD
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12" F 8 twin-linked
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12" A 2 twin-linked
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12" P 4 twin-linked
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12" S 4 twin-linked
 
Unfortunately it's underpowered for a Raid PL vessel and overpowered for a Skirmish PL vessel. Concept wise I can see your point but for such a small ship, that's an awful lot of firepower. Not too bad though if you beef up the hull of the ship a bit :)
 
I think just upping the Pulse Cannons by +2 even on just the Fore/Starboard/Port arcs would do well to make the Chronos a good skirmish choice, no need to do any broad, sweeping changes.

The two issues I've always had with the Chronos is 1) A low level of firepower and 2) Very fragile, especially against weapons that can bypass Hull 6/Interceptors, such as E-mines, Beam weapons. _Maybe_ a few more damage points instead of/in addition to increased Pulse Cannon AD.
 
I actually really like the Chronos as it is and find they tend to work pretty effectively. Like all EA ships, they overperform a bit vs. fleets lacking in Beam weaponry and vice versa.

You just have to remember not to try and use it as a ship to throw into the middle of a furball even though it looks like it would do well. The railgun is the main weapon and often should be used alone with CBD. Other times, keep the Chronos skirting round the enemy, setting up a dead zone with 3-4 Chronos Frigates overlapping each other and you can throw an arc or two of pulse cannon fire into the mix as well. Use its turns and speed to keep circling the main fight and you won't go far wrong.
 
If you think that is the worst ship in the game you need to spend more time with the fleet book... a lot more time.

That said the ship could use a tweak or two.

One issue is small number of interceptable dice often feel wasted. It is too much luck to hit in the first place to then watch them stopped. That it's only single damage when it does get through makes you wonder why you have them. The reality is burning interceptors is why they are there and to toss extra dice at cripples and incautious fighters... but that isn't 'fun' enough for most folks.

Second is the generally upping of firepower gave the current crop of skirmish ships generally short lifespans. Given the numbers of them you can buy this may work out math wise, but again has that un-fun thing. No one wants to put a ship on the table and never get to shoot with it. Blowing things up is fun... but it's better if all ships get to shoot once or twice before that part of the game starts.

Ripple
 
Triggy said:
Unfortunately it's underpowered for a Raid PL vessel and overpowered for a Skirmish PL vessel. Concept wise I can see your point but for such a small ship, that's an awful lot of firepower. Not too bad though if you beef up the hull of the ship a bit :)
Well, to me the Vorchan is the vessel all skirmish ships have to be compared with. And from that point of view I don't think it's overpowered in any way.

Ripple said:
If you think that is the worst ship in the game you need to spend more time with the fleet book... a lot more time.
Well, it may not be the worst vessel at all, but it is the ONLY skirmish choice the Crusade EA has. And it's a really crappy one.
Maybe we simply use the Artemis' stats instead.

Ripple said:
Second is the generally upping of firepower gave the current crop of skirmish ships generally short lifespans. Given the numbers of them you can buy this may work out math wise, but again has that un-fun thing. No one wants to put a ship on the table and never get to shoot with it. Blowing things up is fun... but it's better if all ships get to shoot once or twice before that part of the game starts.
That came into my mind too, but the Chronos is designated as an "Attack Frigate" and those things typically tend to have some decent firepower.
 
Galatea said:
I don't think there is any discussion about this ship being the crapiest escort vessel Earthforce ever got and probably it's the worst escort vessel in the entire game.

I'm with Galatea on this one. The Cronos is a crapy skirmish vessel.
2 AD on all Pulse Cannons would fit the ship better.
 
I've always been a fan of a Chronos variant that is similar to the Chronos 1e at the Raid level, in addition to the one being at Skirmish.

Dark Angel
 
Personally, I like it.

What size game do you normally play?

The critical limitation of the Chronos-class is that it's designed to engage light units, not heavy units. Field them in a battle- or war-priority game and they're clay pigeons. Field them in a skirmish- or patrol-priority game and they're scary as hell.

The ship it should be compared to - because it's a closer successor - is the Olympus-class corvette; it's traded the missile racks and a couple of pulse dice for hull 6, a second interceptor, and anti-fighter 4. This is a bad trade against ships of the line, who invariably pack super armour-piercing weapons or lasers, hence the situation above.

The revised statline, as noted, is (much too) harsh for a patrol-level ship but would struggle at raid level. Personally I agree that the Chronos should have been a Raid-priority ship; it fits the development of EA ships (nova-omega-warlock, hyperion-marathon, oracle-delphi, etc) but people were obsessed with the lack of skirmish-priority ships that left.


Well, it may not be the worst vessel at all, but it is the ONLY skirmish choice the Crusade EA has. And it's a really crappy one.

No, it's not. There's also the Hyperion-class Assault Cruiser, which has very impressive durability for a skirmish-priority ship.
 
Honetsly I would have been happy to see some more "new style" Earth Alliance ships to punch out the old style vessels and give more choices. By now the later the era played the lesser choices you have as EA.
 
Actually, you haven't.

But in terms of actual hull classes it has more than any of its peers, the Crusade fleet has 13*, the Third Age 12** and the Early Years only 11***.

Add some variants into the fleet, perhaps. But there are more than enough Crusade-era hulls.

There is also 'fighting ship' at each weight, not just specialists - the Tantalus does a pretty passable attempt at a Nova replacement; less broadside attack dice but 10 extra hit points, and anti-fighter 4 to make up for the 2 lost starfury flights - and the two breaching pods if you get a chance to use them.



* Apollo, Chronos, Delphi, Explorer, Hermes, Hyperion, Marathon, Myrmidon, Omega, Poseidon, Tantalus, Victory, Warlock

** Artemis, Avenger, Explorer, Hermes, Hyperion, Nova, Olympus, Omega
Oracle, Poseidon, Tantalus, Warlock

*** Artemis, Avenger, Explorer, Hermes, Hyperion, Nova, Olympus, Oracle
Orestes, Saggitarius, Tethys
 
Well, to be honest I DO feel the 2nd Ed Chronos has been 'defanged' a bit too much, however its a LONG way from 'the crappiest escort in the game'.

It is, I feel JUST as tough as it ever was (though still rather vulnerable to beams, even more so now they dont care about the hull 6), if anything its tougher than the old version having hardly lost any hit points and gone down from 3 to 2 interceptors but you bascialyl get 2 of them for the same price....

The trouble is, the old Chronos had enough firepower that opponents couldn't afford to just ignore it, they HAD to fire on it to get that firepower out of the game and its touhgness allowed it to soak up alot of that firepower, thats baiscally how it did its job, it used up opponents firepower or if they ignored it it got in behind them and used its all round firepower to hammer them.

Now its gone down in firepower to the point where opponents seeing a tough little ship with not alot of firepower can afford to ignore it to an extent and that to me renders it rather less useful. It IS however still packing more than you might thin and the turreted naturre of its rail gun means it can still be just as much of a pain in the behind once it gets in behind its target.

I DO feel that it could perhaps use a bit of a boost to its pulse cannons (maybe +1 or +2 AD all round as has been suggested (or at least + 1 or 2 on the front and sides) but Im afraid that the proposed one above is WAY over the top. For a Skirmish ship its got as much firepower as a Demos in the front, AND a large chunk of that is turreted, AND its got guns in other arcs, AND its got more interceptors AND its got hull 6 AND its got anti fighter guns (and lots of them to boot). Oh and basically swapping its dmg and crew around doesnt really make much difference to its actual toughness....

As a raid level ship, well, I could sort of see it working but might be a tad fragile.

One last thing though. Speed 8 with 2/45 turns is NOT sluggish, it may not be particularly fast but thats a rather tight turning circle when you think about it which allows it to get behind its target and STAY there all the while returning fire with its main gun thanks to the turreted nature, and that is and always has been the beauty of the Chronos, its just not quite as well armed as it used to be (but as noted you do get TWO of them).

On paper it may look weak stacked up against the likes of the Vorchan but seriously, I think it could probably actually take one on in a one on one fight and have a good chance of winning:

Consider:

1) The two ships close, the Chronos has the edge range (slightly) but the Vorchan has by far the edge in speed and chances are in initiative too, so odds are the first shots will be when both ships are within 12". The chronos closes blast doors since it can fire its railgun at full effectiveness and its 2 AD of cannons are... ahem... well it just closes blast doors ok ;) The Vorchan attempts to CAF, but we'll assume it fails (as its more likely to do so than pass)

2) The vorchan fires first. It scores a total of 3 hits with its Ion cannons on average rolling. On average interceptors rolls the Chronos stops all 3 but is left with 1 dice needing 5s. The Vorchan then fires its plasma accelerator, averageing 2 more hits which statistically the Chronos will most likely failt to stop. On average rolling these will be standard hits doing 4 points of damage and crew, blast door saves would on average stop 1 of each of these, so assuming pretty average rolling a full Volley from a Vorchan against an operational Chronos will do 3 points of hull and crew.

3) the Chronos returns fire with its Railguns, averaging 2 hits that again will average 4 points of damage and crew

Now asuming both players are sensible, the Vorchan should be able to use its speed and maneuverability to fly past the Chronos weapons range and then come back in for another strike ensuring the Chronos only gets to fire when the Vorchan can. A chronos can take 13 points of damage before being crippled or skeleton crewed. A vorchan can take 14 points before being crippled (its got way more crew so we can pretty much discount that.

The thing that should be clear here, is that, if that after the 4th Volley the Vorchan will be crippled, the Chronos will NOT. At that point the Chronos will quite frankly win hands down. On average rolling the Vorchan cannot overwhelm the Chronos interceptors without firing BOTH its weapons systems (and the Chronos CAN instead of doing Close Blast doors, go to 'intensify defensive fire' which thinking about it might actually be more effective (the Vorchan averages 5 hits per turn, 2 interceptors stop an average of 3 per turn, 4 interceptors on the other hand.... actually thinking about it still stop an average of 3 hits per turn I believe but obviously have a slightly better chance of doing so consistently)

Basically though I personally would have to conclude that the Chronos as it stands may seem rather, ahem, naff but if you use CBD well its actually very nasty little flying railgun turret :P
 
I have to say I think one of the big problems with the current Chronos is people thinking it's the old Chronos.

I've got into lots of fights on the table where I've merrily sent in the Chronos as though it was it's previous 'hard as nails' Raid version and then watched it die horribly!

That being said, I do think that it could use either some more firepower, or more damage and crew.
 
As much as I loved the raid chronos, the Skirmish version is fine. the reason it lacks a bit of firepower is it's Hull 6 and interceptors. ok it's still paste against a beamy fleet, but it has good surviveability against fleets such as Abbai and centauri, those few extra turns of survival give it a few more rounds to get the firepower off.
 
I can't say i've ever really been disappointed with the new chronos, in pairs they pack more firepower than one of the old raid ones anyway and they are worth thier weight in gold against non-beam heavy fleets.
 
I was disappointed from the first moment I saw it in the Fleet Book.
I'm missing some serious firepower exept for the Railgun. 4 AD turret is fine for a skirmish level ship. The thing I'm complaining about is it's lack in any form of real secondary weapons. The Pulse Cannons with their 2 AD are no help here either. The only use I see for the Cronos is as decoys where I have to send them, into the enemy lines to draw firepower, but if the enemy knows about the Cronos' capabilities he will focus more on the serious ships in my fleet, those who can dish out damage and kill them first and the turn to the small nuisance that is the Cronos.
 
locarno24 said:
The critical limitation of the Chronos-class is that it's designed to engage light units, not heavy units. Field them in a battle- or war-priority game and they're clay pigeons. Field them in a skirmish- or patrol-priority game and they're scary as hell.
Well, I had some encounters with Vorchans and Ka'tocs in the last time and my Chronos didn't turn out scary at all. They were nothing but slaughtered.
EA at Skirmish level simply isn't playable (except you flood the table with huge squadrons of Myrmidons but that's just stupid).

locarno24 said:
The revised statline, as noted, is (much too) harsh for a patrol-level ship but would struggle at raid level.
Well if compared to the Artemis it is still inferior in speed, hitpoints and firepower. The ONLY advantage it has over the Artemis is it's hull 6. Nothing else.
The design I made has significant (though not very impressive) secondary arament to prevent the ship from being always on CBD (what it would be the most time anyway, but it should be attractive to drop it from time to time and not lay a CBD marker beside it and leave it there until it's destroyed).
 
the slaughter of your chronos is of course a personal experiance, I took some in a game against vorlons, and they all died eventually, but also managed to kill 2 vorlon destroyers. swings and roundabouts my friend
 
I had the same experience like Galatea against different tipes of enemies and strongly wish for an improvement of the Cronos and to make it worth not only when on CBT. Just improve the Pulse Cannons a bit.
 
Well if compared to the Artemis it is still inferior in.......firepower.

Questionable. Reducing multi-arc weapons to a single turreted arc can reduce the gross number of attack dice yet still increase the percieved firepower - as it does here, with an 8-dice railgun spread, almost double what an Artemis can put onto any one target.
 
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