Reform of precise attacks to bypass armour
- Thread starter simonh
- Start date
What one of the guys in our group suggested, is to make a precise attack have the base -40% and then also subtract the armor penalty of the target (so a precise attack against a guy in full plate w/helmet would be at -82% (if I remember the penalties correctly), thereby simulating the difficulty of finding a 'weak spot' in a full suit of plate.
We've tried it for the past two sessions and so far, it seems to work ok.
We've tried it for the past two sessions and so far, it seems to work ok.
Deleriad
Mongoose
I don't think precise attack to ignore armour should exist.
I don't think Armor skill penalties should exist (except for a specific instances)
I realise there is a need for game balance but think that it should be done via ENC and fatigue.
Would much rather see something like cumulative effects:
Light load (up to half of STR+SIZ) no effect on anything
Medium load: up to STR+SIZ: -10% to all dex based skills and fatigue rolls.
Heavy load: up to STR+SIZ*1.5 - (-5 Strike Rank modifier)
Full load: up STR+SIZ*2 --- 1 less CA per round -1 MOV
That's not exactly what I would propose and anything with break points always encourages minimaxing but the game needs far fewer things that create skill modifiers so different types of balance should be explored.
I don't think Armor skill penalties should exist (except for a specific instances)
I realise there is a need for game balance but think that it should be done via ENC and fatigue.
Would much rather see something like cumulative effects:
Light load (up to half of STR+SIZ) no effect on anything
Medium load: up to STR+SIZ: -10% to all dex based skills and fatigue rolls.
Heavy load: up to STR+SIZ*1.5 - (-5 Strike Rank modifier)
Full load: up STR+SIZ*2 --- 1 less CA per round -1 MOV
That's not exactly what I would propose and anything with break points always encourages minimaxing but the game needs far fewer things that create skill modifiers so different types of balance should be explored.
kustenjaeger
Mongoose
Greetings
My approach:
1. Armour penalties affect Swim, Jump, Fatigue rolls
2. Precise attacks with ranged weapons to bypass armour not allowed
3. Precise attack to bypass 1/2 AP of target allowed at -40 but strike last and any parry deflects.
Regards
Edward
My approach:
1. Armour penalties affect Swim, Jump, Fatigue rolls
2. Precise attacks with ranged weapons to bypass armour not allowed
3. Precise attack to bypass 1/2 AP of target allowed at -40 but strike last and any parry deflects.
Regards
Edward
Utgardloki
Mongoose
I'd like to get rid of ENC. I understand that it was supposed to be a simplification for encumbrance rules, but I don't see it any simpler than just adding up the weight of everything carried.
I suppose for armor I could list out an "ENC-factor" based on how it restricts movements, but I think most armor won't really restrict movement that much.
My thought is (and maybe I should change my vote) that since armor penalties make the game more complicated without adding any clear benefit, that they be dropped. (The weight of armor would still count for encumberance, of course, thus for those using ENC, armor would have an ENC value.)
I suppose for armor I could list out an "ENC-factor" based on how it restricts movements, but I think most armor won't really restrict movement that much.
My thought is (and maybe I should change my vote) that since armor penalties make the game more complicated without adding any clear benefit, that they be dropped. (The weight of armor would still count for encumberance, of course, thus for those using ENC, armor would have an ENC value.)
Malakor said:
Yes, it doesn't penaltize too much low-level characters, but when you are on high level (>80%) (and you should have enough money to get full plate) the penalty is higher than original 40%.
Also, I have heard there is something about crafting special armours on Companion? Like creating armour which skil penalty is lower? At high cost of course, but it sounds like fun. But, I don't have Companion yet, so I really don't know for sure.
Well. You're really looking at two completely different problems. Although I suppose they're related since the reduction in skill due to armor worn kinda cancels out the benefits of wearing armor in the first place.
What I would do is the following:
1. Eliminate combat skill penalties for wearing armor. Apply them to the fatigue rolls instead and as skill penalties to specific skills where it makes sense to apply them (swim, climb, etc).
2. Change precise strike entirely. The two critical changes I'd make:
A. Aimed blow: The attacker may choose to reduce his attack skill by any amount. Each 5% of skill expended allows him to shift the location die roll by one point.
B. Bypass armor: The attacker may choose to reduce his attack skill by any amount. For each 10% of skill expended, he may ignore 1AP of the defenders worn armor (not parrying points though).
Seems simple. It's scalable to power level. Higher skilled people can avoid larger amounts of armor if they want to, or hit any location they want to. It also eliminates the "all or nothing" effect of bypass armor as written in the rules. I should not be able to spend the same 40% to bypass a dragons armor or a bandits leather. One should actually be "harder" then the other.
Of course, I'd also include the ability to expend skill points over 100% to subtract from both your and your opponent's skill. That way, your defensive skill makes it harder for the attacker to bypass your armor or hit the location of his choice (which makes incredible sense). It retains the ability for a highly skilled warrior to take on a low skilled but heavily armored monster as well (and any other situations you could dream up), without being abusive.
As the rule's currently stand, once you've got a 140% skill, there's not much benefit to gaining more (except crit chances). This provides a natural scaling that goes as high as you want it to go.
What I would do is the following:
1. Eliminate combat skill penalties for wearing armor. Apply them to the fatigue rolls instead and as skill penalties to specific skills where it makes sense to apply them (swim, climb, etc).
2. Change precise strike entirely. The two critical changes I'd make:
A. Aimed blow: The attacker may choose to reduce his attack skill by any amount. Each 5% of skill expended allows him to shift the location die roll by one point.
B. Bypass armor: The attacker may choose to reduce his attack skill by any amount. For each 10% of skill expended, he may ignore 1AP of the defenders worn armor (not parrying points though).
Seems simple. It's scalable to power level. Higher skilled people can avoid larger amounts of armor if they want to, or hit any location they want to. It also eliminates the "all or nothing" effect of bypass armor as written in the rules. I should not be able to spend the same 40% to bypass a dragons armor or a bandits leather. One should actually be "harder" then the other.
Of course, I'd also include the ability to expend skill points over 100% to subtract from both your and your opponent's skill. That way, your defensive skill makes it harder for the attacker to bypass your armor or hit the location of his choice (which makes incredible sense). It retains the ability for a highly skilled warrior to take on a low skilled but heavily armored monster as well (and any other situations you could dream up), without being abusive.
As the rule's currently stand, once you've got a 140% skill, there's not much benefit to gaining more (except crit chances). This provides a natural scaling that goes as high as you want it to go.
The companion has rules for better armour, which takes the bypass armour modifer from -40% to -80%. It costs around 5 times as much as the basic stuff thats in the core book.
This makes lots of sense to me, normal soldiers in "regulation/basic" armour and Lords and Hero's in the good stuff.
There is even rules in there so that good armour has less of impact to skills, to the point were realy good suit of Ringmail would not give any impact at all on any skill. And that is not with a whiff of magic.
Also give players something to save up for.
This makes lots of sense to me, normal soldiers in "regulation/basic" armour and Lords and Hero's in the good stuff.
There is even rules in there so that good armour has less of impact to skills, to the point were realy good suit of Ringmail would not give any impact at all on any skill. And that is not with a whiff of magic.
Also give players something to save up for.
