Refining Water into Fuel

[Vidgar]

Greetings All,
I got a bit of a nut and bolt question.

A 400T streamline ship and skim 10% (40T) of it hull tonnage from the atmosphere of a Gas Giant per 2Dx10 minutes.
1T of Fuel Processor will refine 20T of un-refined fuel into refined fuel in 24hrs.

What the numbers for processing water into refined fuel ?

 

[Vormaerin]

I don't believe it is discussed in any mongoose product. In T5, overall everything is faster. But water is 40% of the rate of gas and ice is 20% of the rate of gas.

So you can just make it the same or you can slow it down a lot, as per T5.

 

[Condottiere]

I think it's ignored.

With a fusion reactor, melting ice won't take long, and I suspect breaking it apart and shovelling it in probably takes the most effort.

I don't know the chemical composition of Jupiter's atmosphere, but I suppose it's the separation of anything non hydrogen, and what do you do with that?

With water, you could liquidate the oxygen, and use it for life support.

I would also think that water has a greater density than gas, so maybe in terms of time spent in processing it equals out.

 

[Vidgar]

Thank Condottiere,
Question: Is the Hydrogen (refined Fuel) stored as a liquid or gas?

 

[Alqualonde]

Thank Condottiere,
Question: Is the Hydrogen (refined Fuel) stored as a liquid or gas?

AFAIK, it is liquid. It is not explicitely said for fuel tanks, but it is mentionned for the collapsible fuel tanks (Highguard 2020, p48).

 

[Condottiere]

Optionally, non-flammable metal hydride matrix ... consumes twice as much space and costs MCr0.2 per ton.

Unlikely to be able to use the default processor to manufacture it, cost implies a rather expensive method to obtain it, likely available on most starports.

 

[Shadowblayde99]

I had the thought that to process fuel, you'd need more of the source material to begin with than you get liquid hydrogen at the end. So, if I skim 400 tonnes of gas from a star or get 400 tonnes of water or 400 tonnes of unrefined fuel, I would not end up with 400 tonnes of liquid hydrogen.

 

[GarethL]

I had the thought that to process fuel, you'd need more of the source material to begin with than you get liquid hydrogen at the end. So, if I skim 400 tonnes of gas from a star or get 400 tonnes of water or 400 tonnes of unrefined fuel, I would not end up with 400 tonnes of liquid hydrogen.

Exactly that,

Per water molecule you'd get two hydrogen atoms,

It's only going to be an issue if you have a very short supply though - if you're sucking up water from an ocean the only real issue is going to be purifying time.

Does anyone know of any issues with powering a ship power plant with unrefined fuel? It seems like it should impact the output at least.

As written non-jump ships don't need refined fuel at all...

 

[Vormaerin]

There is no rule in Mongoose Traveller about that. In Classic Traveller, there was a check for engine malfunction if using unrefined fuel that could affect any of the jump drive, maneuver drive, or power planet that was separate from misjumping.

 

[Condottiere]

Once the fuel purifier was introduced, a little cost benefit analysis would have everyone installing at least a one tonne example on their starships.

Regarding fuel impurities for power plants, and reactionary rockets, I would have said that you'd need to regularly clean/flush their plumbing and systems.

 

[Vormaerin]

CT the rules were that if you ran unrefined fuel in your engines, the risk of malfunction lasted until you spent some dock time purging and flushing the engines and doing maintenance. Like days or a week, not hours.

 

[Vidgar]

Thanks for all the idea,
I start this question, because my travellers are required to obtain fuel from ice on top of a mountain range on from Elysee 2 (Reft 1525 - Sea level Atmosphere is 100, per Traveller T5 Map). Get water from ice is easy by pumping heated air from the ship, into hoses that is lade under/in the snow and ice, and then sucking water out before it re-freezes or a more HIGH tech system
As a newbie DM (64 years old), I need a base line to work out time for the following:
* A 400T Perfect Strange needs 120T of Refined fuel,
* Assuming 66% volume of hydrogen from water.
* 1 Ton of fuel processor gives 20T of Refined fuel (from un-refined fuel) per 24hours ish,
So, how long do you think my Traveller will be sitting on top on a freezing mountain.

 

[Condottiere]

You might already have melt off from a glacier, so suction rate and efficiency from your water hoses.

Match that with your fuel purifier, though you could accumulate more water, and than purify most of that after you have taken off.

 

[Shadowblayde99]

Thanks for all the idea,
I start this question, because my travellers are required to obtain fuel from ice on top of a mountain range on from Elysee 2 (Reft 1525 - Sea level Atmosphere is 100, per Traveller T5 Map). Get water from ice is easy by pumping heated air from the ship, into hoses that is lade under/in the snow and ice, and then sucking water out before it re-freezes or a more HIGH tech system
As a newbie DM (64 years old), I need a base line to work out time for the following:
* A 400T Perfect Strange needs 120T of Refined fuel,
* Assuming 66% volume of hydrogen from water.
* 1 Ton of fuel processor gives 20T of Refined fuel (from un-refined fuel) per 24hours ish,
So, how long do you think my Traveller will be sitting on top on a freezing mountain.

Looks like they will be sat there for 6 days. Probably a good time for a mini adventure involving strange creatures or aliens.

 

[Reisender]

Ice Refueling

 

[alex_greene]

I think it's ignored.

With a fusion reactor, melting ice won't take long, and I suspect breaking it apart and shovelling it in probably takes the most effort.

I don't know the chemical composition of Jupiter's atmosphere, but I suppose it's the separation of anything non hydrogen, and what do you do with that?

With water, you could liquidate the oxygen, and use it for life support.

I would also think that water has a greater density than gas, so maybe in terms of time spent in processing it equals out.

Primarily, Jupiter's atmosphere comprises mainly hydrogen, with some helium (10%), and the rest being impurities such as ammonia, sulphur (the red colour of the Great Red Spot), and methane. Oh, and some water vapour.

 

[Condottiere]

The hydrogen would be distilled out, and I would assume that the oxygen would be harvested, while the rest likely discharged into space, since I would tink that the air onboard already has the right mix of nitrogen.

 

[alex_greene]

The hydrogen would be distilled out, and I would assume that the oxygen would be harvested, while the rest likely discharged into space, since I would think that the air onboard already has the right mix of nitrogen.

The ship still needs nitrogen, at 78% of its internal atmosphere. Those other impurities can be collected, contained, and sold at Starports. I'm sure there are plenty of chemical companies who could use the impurities collected. Might even offset some of the Starport fees.

 

[Condottiere]

I thought about that, but it would have to be rare gases, since you'd have to think that there would be fuel purifiers everywhere.

Nitrogen, maybe if there's an air leak, or for the biosphere.