RE: PERSONAL COMBAT

[joe90]

Hi there guys. I have another problem which I need some help with.

On page 82 of the personal combat chapter it reads
'Any bonuses granted to AC within the Players Handbook apply equally to a characters DV, such as the Dodge feat for example.

Dodge feat?? It is not listed in the feats table on page 35 or 36 or mentioned in the feat descriptions???????

Also on page 84 it reads
' Every character in Armageddon 2089 game is considered to have the shot on the Run feat from the players handbook as standard.'

Looking at page 100 of the D&D manual - SHOT ON THE RUN
'You are highly trained in skirmish ranged weapon tactics.'
Prerequisites: Dex13,Dodge,Mobility,Point Blank Shot,base attack bonus + 4.
1 - Dodge isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?
2 - Mobility isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?
3 - Point Blank shot isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?
4 - Prerequisite is base attack bonus must be 4+ so looking at the characters in armageddon it would take until 4th level to get a base attack bonus of +4 so how does every character begin with this.

(Dodge states you get a +1 dodge bonus to DV & Mobility states you get a + 4 dodge bonus to DV.) Do you add both of these together?

Point blank states you get +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet. - is this correct?

Would appreciate some help on this matter if possible.

Cheers
Joe

 

[Neo]

Hi there guys. I have another problem which I need some help with.

On page 82 of the personal combat chapter it reads
'Any bonuses granted to AC within the Players Handbook apply equally to a characters DV, such as the Dodge feat for example.

Dodge feat?? It is not listed in the feats table on page 35 or 36 or mentioned in the feat descriptions???????

The only feats from the table included in the Armageddon rulebook are the "new" feats, all other feats are in the Dungeons and Dragons Players Handbook, or can be found in the downloadable SRD from the Wizards of the Coast website.
Dodge feat can be found on page 93 of the PHB (3.5).

Also on page 84 it reads
' Every character in Armageddon 2089 game is considered to have the shot on the Run feat from the players handbook as standard.'

Looking at page 100 of the D&D manual - SHOT ON THE RUN
'You are highly trained in skirmish ranged weapon tactics.'
Prerequisites: Dex13,Dodge,Mobility,Point Blank Shot,base attack bonus + 4.
1 - Dodge isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?

It isnt mentioned in Existing Feats but should be.

2 - Mobility isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?

it is indeed used as per the list on page 34 of thre Armageddon rulebook.

3 - Point Blank shot isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?

As above this too is listed and used.

4 - Prerequisite is base attack bonus must be 4+ so looking at the characters in armageddon it would take until 4th level to get a base attack bonus of +4 so how does every character begin with this.

All characters being considered to "effectively" start with this feat (i.e it doesnt count as a feat pick).. is regardless of the usual prerequisites that would normally apply for a Shot on the Run. As such a character does not need to possess, Dex 13, a BAB of 4+, or the dodge, mobility and point blank shot feats.

(Dodge states you get a +1 dodge bonus to DV & Mobility states you get a + 4 dodge bonus to DV.) Do you add both of these together?

The Dv bonus from Dodge applies only against attacks from one opponent who must be designated whenever the character gets his actions.
The Dv bonus from Mobility applies only when avoiding attacks that may be provoked from Attacks of Opportunity when moving into or out of an opponents threatened area (the 8 squares around him effectively).
As such the two are separate but if the attack of opportunity came from the opponent who the character had designated for purposes of his dodge..then they "could" stack, yes.

Point blank states you get +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet. - is this correct?

This one is reclarified on page 40 of the Armageddon rulebook. In Armageddon it actually providies +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 10 metres.

Would appreciate some help on this matter if possible.

Hope this helps

 

[lastbesthope]

Not a bad answer Neo but you missed something about why Dodge isn't there.

Also on page 84 it reads
' Every character in Armageddon 2089 game is considered to have the shot on the Run feat from the players handbook as standard.'

Looking at page 100 of the D&D manual - SHOT ON THE RUN
'You are highly trained in skirmish ranged weapon tactics.'
Prerequisites: Dex13,Dodge,Mobility,Point Blank Shot,base attack bonus + 4.
1 - Dodge isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?

It isnt mentioned in Existing Feats but should be.

Sorry Neo, you're wrong here. Dodge isn't mentioned because it isn't needed. The only thing Dodge would be needed for is to get Mobility. And the prereqs for Mobility have been modified (as mentioned on P.34). The Dodge prerequisite for Mobility is replaced by a prereq for Lightning Reflexes in the table on P.35

2 - Mobility isn't used in armageddon 2089 or is it?

it is indeed used as per the list on page 34 of thre Armageddon rulebook.

But with the modified prereqs as I describe above.

As for the rest, not sure about the stacking of DV bonus, see your D&D PHB for advice.

And the as standard thing means ignore prereqs. Just like a 3rd ed. Ranger gets Ambidexterity & Two Weapon fighting in light and no armour, whether he/she meets the prereqs or not.

LBH

 

[Lane Shutt]

Sorry Neo, you're wrong here. Dodge isn't mentioned because it isn't needed. The only thing Dodge would be needed for is to get Mobility. And the prereqs for Mobility have been modified (as mentioned on P.34). The Dodge prerequisite for Mobility is replaced by a prereq for Lightning Reflexes in the table on P.35
LBH

Neo was right.

At one time the Dodge feat was included in the game. Not sure when it was removed, probably after playtesting.

--
Lane

 

[Neo]

Sorry Neo, you're wrong here. Dodge isn't mentioned because it isn't needed. The only thing Dodge would be needed for is to get Mobility. And the prereqs for Mobility have been modified (as mentioned on P.34). The Dodge prerequisite for Mobility is replaced by a prereq for Lightning Reflexes in the table on P.35
LBH

Neo was right.

At one time the Dodge feat was included in the game. Not sure when it was removed, probably after playtesting.

--
Lane

Yup not quite sure why it was removed or if it was accidentally overlooked, but as Lane points out it was definitely on the list when we playtested it. No real reason for it to be removed as far as I can see. Pretty handy feat for ground pounders..

 

[lastbesthope]

I'm guessing Dodge was deliberately removed or if not, why take it out of the prereqs for Mobility.

So anyone from Mongoose care to share on why it was removed?

LBH

 

[joe90]

Thankyou for your help everyone. I have printed all of your replies off and im keeping them in a book so I can refer to them when needed. I have about 15 sheets with rule clarifications so Phew!!
Thanks again
Cheers
joe 90

 

[joe90]

So let me get this straight!

Mobility and point blank shot are not required in order for you to have the
SHOT ON THE RUN feat. It is given to you as standard.

Every character is given the DODGE FEAT as standard and SHOT ON THE RUN feat automatically so no pre-reqs are required.
(SHOT ON THE RUN)
In that case all characters begin the game with 'When using the attack action with a ranged weapon you can move both before and after the attack provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.'
(DODGE)
You recieve a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks from that opponent.
You can select a new opponent on any action.

And I assume you start the game with MOBILTY and POINT BLANK SHOT as standard too.

Is that what youre saying? I guess so??????????????

 

[Neo]

So let me get this straight!

Mobility and point blank shot are not required in order for you to have the
SHOT ON THE RUN feat. It is given to you as standard.

The above is correct. As all characters are considered to have the Shot on the Run feat regardless of its prerequisites.

Every character is given the DODGE FEAT as standard and SHOT ON THE RUN feat automatically so no pre-reqs are required.
(SHOT ON THE RUN)
In that case all characters begin the game with 'When using the attack action with a ranged weapon you can move both before and after the attack provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.'
(DODGE)
You recieve a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks from that opponent.
You can select a new opponent on any action.

And I assume you start the game with MOBILTY and POINT BLANK SHOT as standard too.

No you do not receive the prerequisite feats free too.. you only recieve Shot on the Run. All it is saying really is that all characters can Move..Shoot and Move again if they wish too (and so long as they do not move further than thier maximum total move rate).

So for example a character with say a 30 ft base movement could choose to do the following.

1. Move up to 30 ft. then Shoot
2. Shoot then move up to 30 ft.
3. Move, then shoot, then move again so long as the total distance moved never exceeds 30 ft.

The confusion with regards to the Dodge feat, which is a separate issue and not related directly to your question about "Shot on the Run", was because Dodge used to be a prerequisite feat for Mobility.
But in the final released book it no longer is, and the Dodge feat had apparently been removed in the time between final playtest when some like myself and Lane know it was still in the game, and final publication. It may have been removed in final edits.. or it may have been overlooked were not quite sure.

 

[lastbesthope]

Ditto what Neo said.

When you get a feat for 'free' like that you do not gain the prerequisites, you just ignore that you need them but only for that free feat. If another feat has the prereq of Mobility you are not eligible for it until you take Mobility, even though you have Shot On The Run which has Mobility as a prereq. however if a feat has Shot on the Run as a prereq then you are eligible for it. Dunno if there are any like that though.

And I reckon Dodge was deliberately removed.

LBH

 

[Kraken]

I've never been really happy with the rule that all characters receive Shot on the Run as a free feat. Especially when it means that civilians, technicians and other non-combatant characters can utilise the feat without any combat training.

Instead, I am going to be including the feat as a bonus feat to the Soldier and Officer class in the future. The efects of the feat should be used to represent the ability of trained soldiers to move and fire effectively and gives these solduier types an edge in fire-fight situations.

 

[lastbesthope]

Sounds fair enough Kraken, the game was mainly designed for playing military typed though I think.

That's the beauty of RPGs, the GM is god!

LBH