Raw Ressource/Tradegoods prices

[Dan True]

I was asked by one of my players yesterday, who on long-term wishes to setup a blacksmith in Sharn, about the prices of raw materials. The A&E makes numerous hints to the need for raw materials, but as far as I can see never gives any.

I am probably just gonna have to do them myself anyway, especially since they will vary from Eberron to Glorantha. I know there are some in Vikings, but they will be very muuch off from a semi-industrialised world such as Eberron

But, I might as well ask here if anyone else has some ideas or has already made a table? I'm especially interested in prices for iron, coal, raw wood, timber etc. Perhaps even other trade goods such as salt, cows etc. Real-world experienced can also be useful.

- Dan

 

[ajs]

Hi Dan
The best source I know of is the Harn Forum
http://www.lythia.com/forum/
If the informations isn't there someome will know where to find it

Goodluck

 

[Mixster]

Since you are using ebberron, D&D bases their economy around raw goods. (Which is why it gets screwed by spells that summon salt).

In D&D Iron is worth one fifth of silver IIRC. And all D&D worlds use non-representional currency (yes even ebberron) even though it makes no sense.

Also, if you want to do it on a longer term, prices should probably fluctuate, an exciting adventure could be finding out why the goblin king has suddenly tripled the price of iron.

Anyway a few guidelines could be decent, but more importantly, try to think about the rarity of such goods, the supply, and the demand. In a huge city thousands of miles from the closest mountain preparing for war, Iron might be ridicolously expensive. In the iron mountains where you can basically pick up iron ingots, something different might be more expensive.

If you want to make things very complicated:
I suggest making a list for the goods where you write what makes it more expensive and less expensive, and then place a price increase/decrease for each of them, for example:
Looking at Ebberron, a chart for the price of Iron in Sharn could be:
More Expensive:
Huge Demand - High Towers, Lots of Artificers, lightning rail. (+20% cost)
Difficult Aquisition - Closest mountains are very far off, making attacks by robbers a big threat, and making caravans to and from more expensive. (+10% cost)
Less Expensive:
Rather big supply - The city lies on a major trade route, so there should be a large supply of just about any good you can set your mind to. (-10% cost)

So all in all, I'd say Iron (which IMO should be about a fifth the cost of raw silver) would be 20% more expensive in Sharn than in other general cities.

 

[Dan True]

I actually discovered something of the underlying economy. It appears all coins weight roughly 40 grams, so 1 kg of a material(silver, gold etc.) costs 25 coins of the same material. This does make for some very heavy treasure piles though...

I also kept finding a price of 40 SP for 1 kg sword-quality iron (appropriate carbon percents) - and a price varying from 6 SP to 15 SP for lesser iron, such as pig iron or iron ore.

I have tested them slightly and they seem internally consistent, so it may be something to work on frem. I got it by calculating the material price on the swords using a formula assuming 1/3 material price) and then using the x12 gold cost modifier from A&E. This added up nicely for all the other materials when using their coinage-value compared to gold.
It does mean that sword-quality iron is more expensive than Silver, but that doesn't seem too much off in my eyes when looking at the high prices for swords (175 SP for a warsword, which weighs around 1.3 kg). Normal raw (pig) iron used either for making steel or for simple tools, would be worth approximately half that of Silver in this. I need to check this by some sources before I settle on the prices.

- Dan

 

[Mixster]

I don't think the iron quality is what makes swords expensive, but the high amount of craftmanship that has entered into them.
If for example an avid vampire hunter wanted a sword out of Silver, I'm pretty sure the raw materials would be more expensive than the price of a steel sword. It would probably still be less useful though.

I don't know much about the prices in A&E, but I know that in all D&D worlds, 50 coins weigh 1 pound, and 1 pound of silver costs 50 silver. So that seems to indicate a non-representational currency. Which is silly though. Worlds with banks and all that kindda need representational currency to function properly.

Coins weighing 40grams each seem rather silly IMO. Since silver weigh about 10grams/cubic centimeter. Assuming coins are no more than half a centimeter thick, they would have to be almost 3 by 3 centimeters. Buying swords would be silly since you'd need to fill you bag entirely to carry 175 silvers to the smith.
Where did you get the 40 grams each?

The best data I can get are from this page (sadly after industrialisation, where Iron got more expensive, but pretty good for Ebberron):
http://minerals.usgs.gov/ds/2005/140/
It seems that iron & steel fluctuated from about $15-$25 a ton, while silver kept a pretty steady $20 a ton from 1900 to 1915. Gold was also pretty steady at around 600$ a ton. Iron Ore, was worth about 2$/ton
So steel and silver is worth about the same, while gold is worth 30 times that, raw Iron is worth only about a tenth of that.
That seems to indicate that "sword iron" would cost about the same as silver, although I believe that the amount of work to produce the steel is what makes it more costly than the raw iron.

But I still claim that what made swords expensive was the huge work into weighing it and callibrating it. A proper bow needs no more than a good Ash stick, and a piece of string. Yet it can be sold for 150 silvers. I highly doubt that is due to the materials involved, but more the fact that a bow can take months, even years to make.

 

[Dan True]

I don't think the iron quality is what makes swords expensive, but the high amount of craftmanship that has entered into them.
If for example an avid vampire hunter wanted a sword out of Silver, I'm pretty sure the raw materials would be more expensive than the price of a steel sword. It would probably still be less useful though.

I assumed that 1/3 of the price was materials. So craftmanship and earnings still make up most of it. Also remember that this is an ordinary sword, not of extreme high quality - those have the Enhancements as presented in A&E.

Also, iron of a quality to make swords should be more expensive than ordinary pig iron. It is more in demand and of much higher quality as a weapon.

Coins weighing 40grams each seem rather silly IMO. Since silver weigh about 10grams/cubic centimeter. Assuming coins are no more than half a centimeter thick, they would have to be almost 3 by 3 centimeters.

That isn't that bad compared to historical coins.. A bit larger yes, but not much. If you look at the D&D Players Handbook there's a 1:1 depiction of a gold piece, and it's not slightly smaller than this.

Buying swords would be silly since you'd need to fill you bag entirely to carry 175 silvers to the smith.

Or use 8 GC and 15 SP. <this would weight 920 g.. When at LARPs I've tried carrying a large quantity of coins (historial replicas) around, and they are heavy. I carried about 4 kg of coins plus various values in bracelets one time when playing a wine salesman.

Where did you get the 40 grams each?

Using some assumed values I got the 40 SP per kg for weapon-appropriate iron. This is of course based on assumptions, but I got the same ~40 SP / kg for both War Sword, Great Sword and Shortsword based on their appropriate weight and price.
Then A&E states that gold is 12 times more expensive than iron, so that makes it 480 SP per kg gold = 24 GC per kilo gold. 1000 g / 24 coins = 41.6 g per coin ~ 40g.
I then used the coinage values (i.e. silver is worth 1/20 gold, assuming there's the same weight in the coins), and copper is 1/10 of silver assuming the same. These assumptions can of course be wrong, but I can easily take other assumptions of coin weight into account.
With these in mind 1 kg of silver should cost 480 SP / 20 = 24 SP
And 1 kg of copper should then cost 24 SP / 10 = 24 CP.


Scientifically/Statistically these numbers are of course all bogus, as they are based on a number of assumptions. But I am looking for a economical system internally consistent and not-entirely weird looking. These require some more work, but I feel that I'm getting there.

Your earlier comment about availability should of course also be taken into account.

- Dan

 

[Mixster]

Would you also rule that an ashen stick would cost around 50Sp because that is one third the price of a longbow?

I know you can't use pig iron for swords, I just don't think that even good Iron is that expensive, also in most pre-medieval times I don't think you could tell the difference, Viking Swords were mostly made from Bog Iron anyway.

Also I don't think coins being non-representional is realistic or even feasible in worlds advanced beyond medieval times. Trade grinds to a complete halt in such worlds whenever the market gets stocked with one good. Say if a lot gold suddenly entered the market, all your adventuerers gold coins would suddenly be worth less than their silver. This makes trade houses, and even worse, banking pretty impossible.

But if you just want some numbers, silver being the price of steel is probably pretty feasible. While I'm logging around larger, less handy silver coins when I could be logging steel coins is beyond me though. probably because of the rusting, but silver can get fatigued as well.

 

[Dan True]

Would you also rule that an ashen stick would cost around 50Sp because that is one third the price of a longbow?

No, of course not. I use the 1/3 as a rough guideline, and I've only used in on weapons very similar in shape and design, namely the swords. It might need revision though, but I like the consistency of the results so far.

I know you can't use pig iron for swords, I just don't think that even good Iron is that expensive, also in most pre-medieval times I don't think you could tell the difference, Viking Swords were mostly made from Bog Iron anyway.

Well, the Viking book has prices for these things and I'm not trying to make a price list feasible for both vikings, eberron and glorantha. I just want something that makes sense in Eberron.

Also I don't think coins being non-representional is realistic or even feasible in worlds advanced beyond medieval times. Trade grinds to a complete halt in such worlds whenever the market gets stocked with one good. Say if a lot gold suddenly entered the market, all your adventuerers gold coins would suddenly be worth less than their silver. This makes trade houses, and even worse, banking pretty impossible.

While I agree, you must also remember that this is exactly what happened and what led to the introduction of a representive economy. Up through the 1500s and 1600s (which in many ways corresponds nicely to some Eberron aspects) you still used coinage made from rare materials, which in the 1700s led to havoc in the economy and the introduction of modern economics. But, it survived in the 1500s and 1600s because of control. Guilds & Banking/trade houses controlled prices, the states rigidly taxed and regulated foreign wares (Mercantilism) and trade was mostly the result of diplomatic or local agreements - not individual initiative or ideas of free trade.

Many of the same stabilising factors are present in Eberron. Kundarak control almost all of the mining facilities in the world, except for the few in Zilargo perhaps, and rigidly regulates the prices and availability of materials. The large guilds such as the Artisans guild of House Cannith controls production and pricing, and though they don't have any official monopoly their advanced crafting techniques, semi-industrialised workshops and volume of trade means they can undercut all but the most supreme competitors.

Not that it matters, because I'm not going to change Eberron into using a representative coinage.

But if you just want some numbers, silver being the price of steel is probably pretty feasible. While I'm logging around larger, less handy silver coins when I could be logging steel coins is beyond me though. probably because of the rusting, but silver can get fatigued as well.

Because steel looses value as soon as it has been hardened and given a shape. While it is possible to melt and reforge, it takes a lot of heat. Silver on the other hand can always be melted down into rings or a necklace for sale, in a melting cubicle availible in a standard jewelers house - remelting steel takes a large cauldron at 1.300 Celcius. Plus, a lot of the strength of steel comes from it strucute... melting and reforging it can very well ruin the carbon-level in the steel and the molecular structure.
So, it doesn't ruin silver to melt it into coins... While it doesn't ruin steel, it does make it harder to use.


I'll take a look at the numbers again. The price for weapon-suitable iron might be too high... when I think about it, it should be less than silver.

- Dan

 

[Simulacrum]

You're a bit off on the coin weight which is throwing the rest out. A typical ancient silver coin would weigh in at about 5-7g )use 6.25 for a Roman Denarius). A coin of this type is a reasonable day's wage for a skilled worker.

In which case you get 160sp = 1KG (and 1kg has a value of 160SP in an ideal world, which of course it isn't)

For coins made of a less valuable metal such as copper or iron, assume a range of 10-16 per SP depending on size. Bronze coins may be quite valuable if you have a world like ours where it is an alloyed metal and dependant on successful long distance trade routes to bring the constituent metals together.

Very roughly at present I am using 1KG Iron = 15SP. Bronze is worth more of course, perhaps 3-4 times more, both because of the process involved and because it resists corrosion better and can be polished up nicely so has a higher perceived value when used for armour. Hence bronze weapons are more expensive than iron ones.

Any powerful and enduring state will start to debase its coinage to save its bullion reserves (or make up for lack thereof), so a SP is often only worth its supposed precious metal equivalent as a unit of exchange because the issuing authority says it is and will guarantee it.

 

[Dan True]

You're a bit off on the coin weight which is throwing the rest out. A typical ancient silver coin would weigh in at about 5-7g )use 6.25 for a Roman Denarius). A coin of this type is a reasonable day's wage for a skilled worker.

Yep, I just did a bit of research and have found the same.

One must also remember that a golden coin is not made of 100% pure gold. It is properly of 1/2 or 1/3 gold. I'll check to see if I can find something more precise.

- Dan

Edit: Hmm, seems like a fair number of coins was actually of 90%+ gold.

 

[Simulacrum]

indeed. that was kind of the point - gold might be issued as bullion coins to store wealth rather than as a handy token of exchange.

Silver and the cheaper bronze and other metal coins were what you would find carried around for daily use, and these were far more likely to be debased as time went on as their value was conventional to a unit of currency rather than bullion.

In an RPG world this matters if your adventurers return from an expedition with a big haul of coins, only to find they are no longer legal tender, the local money changers will pay a fraction of their face value because they won't yield much precious metal content...

 

[Dan True]

It also seems that gold was averagely 16-20 times as much worth as silver, until the 1800s and the british dominance of world economy. The british don't have much silver, so they used what they could to lower its value. Today the ratio is around 1:66 or 1:70.

- Dan

 

[Dan True]

I ended up with the following. To be it makes good sense, and it also seems consistent with Eberron. I am assuming 10g per coin, as that is what a D&D coin weighs, so I'm sticking to the fluff. I am assuming around 50% purity of all coins.


Iron Ore 1 kg 10 SP
Wrought Iron 1 kg 25 SP
Weapon Iron 1 kg 40 SP
Steel 1 kg 160 SP
Lead 1 kg 5 CP
Copper 1 kg 16 SP
Tin 1 kg 40 SP
Bronze 1 kg 60 SP
Cold Iron 1 kg 100 SP
Targath 1 kg 200 SP
Silver 1 kg 200 SP
Gold 1 kg 200 GC
Mithral 1 kg 28 GC
Adamantine 1 kg 32 GC
Platinum 1 kg 200 PP (= 20.000 SP)

Anything seem completely off the meter?

- Dan

 

[PhilHibbs]

Anything seem completely off the meter?

Eberron uses the metric system???

 

[Dan True]

Anything seem completely off the meter?

Eberron uses the metric system???

La la la No, but RuneQuest does and I do

 

[Mixster]

Gold 1 kg 200 GC
Mithral 1 kg 28 GC
Adamantine 1 kg 32 GC

If you are basing it off D&D prices, I'm pretty sure Adamantine and Mithral should be worth more than gold. IIRC The DMG has one pound of Adamantine to be worth 500 gold. Which is like 10 times the price of gold. Also a suit of adamantine full plate costs 16500gc in D&D. Assuming it weighs 10kgs, and the materials costs a third, that gives us 550gc/kg.

Cold Iron is mentioned to cost twice as much as the standard counterpart. So I suggest cold iron being twice the price of steel. Unless you want steel weapons to be better than regular weapons.

I am assuming around 50% purity of all coins

Not really the way D&D does it, but I like it better, D&D is silly in that 50 of a coin = ½kg, and ½kg of that material is worth 50 of that coin, which is pretty much solid proof that all D&D worlds use non-intrinsic economical systems, completely silly, but that's how it is.

While I agree, you must also remember that this is exactly what happened and what led to the introduction of a representive economy. Up through the 1500s and 1600s (which in many ways corresponds nicely to some Eberron aspects) you still used coinage made from rare materials, which in the 1700s led to havoc in the economy and the introduction of modern economics. But, it survived in the 1500s and 1600s because of control. Guilds & Banking/trade houses controlled prices, the states rigidly taxed and regulated foreign wares (Mercantilism) and trade was mostly the result of diplomatic or local agreements - not individual initiative or ideas of free trade.

Yeah, but representational currency was in effect much before the 15th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_currency

While they contained precious metals, the value of a coin was higher than its precious metal content, so they were not bullion.

This is called intrinsic value, and makes much sense in advanced worlds, since it is impossible to store value as coins without their intrinsic value. In such cases buying gold bars would be more safe, as they would not have their value detoriated by an everchanging nobility stamping new faces on their coins.

Not changing Ebberron to a representational economic system is fine, but it does keep the world being pretty odd. It can still work, but only as long as there is a mining and trading monopoly held up by the houses, even with those in place, the price between the different forms of money would fluctuate. The price of Copper for example, arose hugely when electricity became dependant on copper wires, making some copper coins worth more as scrap metal than their printed value.

But since Eberron is very much a world of economics, I would only find it reasonable if the prices fluctuated with supply and demand.

PS. Since Targath is the same price as silver, and a soft metal (so it can be reforged), that has the added effect of protecting against diseases, why isn't that the standard coin? Fear of werewolves?

 

[Dan True]

If you are basing it off D&D prices, I'm pretty sure Adamantine and Mithral should be worth more than gold. IIRC The DMG has one pound of Adamantine to be worth 500 gold. Which is like 10 times the price of gold. Also a suit of adamantine full plate costs 16500gc in D&D. Assuming it weighs 10kgs, and the materials costs a third, that gives us 550gc/kg.

I did the same calculation, but on a breastplate and weight of 5kg (besides, a full plate weights closer to 30 kg than 10- my winter jacket weights 3.5 alone ) and those added up nicely, and give the current prices.
Medium armor +10,000 gp

So, 5 kg of adamantine is worth 3.333 gp (one third of 10.000 for materials) = 666 gp per kg. Since each coin is 10 g (they say it weights 1/3 of an ounce ~10 g). that is 6660 g (6.6 kg) for 5 kg adamantine. So in this case adamantine is the cheaper.

But this probably arises from the fact that they have made those categories, plus we cannot really generalise and say 1/3 of materials for both a breastplade and a full plate, as a full plate will require much more work to fit the parts together.

I'll make a double check when I'm a little more energitized (just got home from reenactment).
[/quote]

Cold Iron is mentioned to cost twice as much as the standard counterpart. So I suggest cold iron being twice the price of steel. Unless you want steel weapons to be better than regular weapons.

Steel is better than normal weapons, as presented in A&E... but I might need to specify the rules. Since Eberron is so advanced, perhaps I should call it "Superior Steel" and call "Weapons Iron" mild steel or just steel.

Yeah, but representational currency was in effect much before the 15th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_currency

While they contained precious metals, the value of a coin was higher than its precious metal content, so they were not bullion.

This is called intrinsic value, and makes much sense in advanced worlds, since it is impossible to store value as coins without their intrinsic value. In such cases buying gold bars would be more safe, as they would not have their value detoriated by an everchanging nobility stamping new faces on their coins.

Not changing Ebberron to a representational economic system is fine, but it does keep the world being pretty odd. It can still work, but only as long as there is a mining and trading monopoly held up by the houses, even with those in place, the price between the different forms of money would fluctuate. The price of Copper for example, arose hugely when electricity became dependant on copper wires, making some copper coins worth more as scrap metal than their printed value.

1. Just because the Romans did it, doesn't mean it should be introduced in a medieval setting The romans did it, but from 400-1300 economies were almost solely based on natural value. Even after 1300 the way towards representational economy was very long and arduous indeed. In Eberron you can see the beginnings of the system in the letters of credit - how long before you can trade those as representational money?

2. Prices should always fluctate, from supply and demand and availability of resources.But, I need some base to start from, and since most campaigns take place in at most a few years, prices won't fluctate that much, aside form major technological breakthroughs or political or economical changes. These prices are a starting ground and then if the campaign drags on for 100 years of the Mror Holds disappears in a conflagration similar to the one in Cyre, then I'll add modifiers Your ideas for a system might prove valuable there,

But since Eberron is very much a world of economics, I would only find it reasonable if the prices fluctuated with supply and demand.

Yep, they should. if the campaign runs for a long time or major changes happend, prices should change dynamically.

PS. Since Targath is the same price as silver, and a soft metal (so it can be reforged), that has the added effect of protecting against diseases, why isn't that the standard coin? Fear of werewolves?

Targath is much rarer (which would make it more expensive) and has much less uses (which decreases the price back again). So, since it is rarer it is not suited to coins. Besides, the reason for using copper, silver and gold will lead back to tradition when the Eberron society was much more like a normal medieval world. Mining technology will have been different then and Targath much rarer.

- Dan

 

[Mixster]

Targath is much rarer (which would make it more expensive) and has much less uses (which decreases the price back again). So, since it is rarer it is not suited to coins. Besides, the reason for using copper, silver and gold will lead back to tradition when the Eberron society was much more like a normal medieval world. Mining technology will have been different then and Targath much rarer.

Tradition has no place in a world were the coins are only worth their weight. If you can be reasonably sure to fetch the same price anywhere you trade with your Targath. And that price is the same as silver, there is no reason not to carry some Targath. Especially if it weighs less.

Also, even though it is a lot rarer it is still worth the same, there is no reason you couldn't just as well have some targath coins. Since it is rarer it would only be worth more if minted, making it very suitable for coins.

I did the same calculation, but on a breastplate and weight of 5kg (besides, a full plate weights closer to 30 kg than 10- my winter jacket weights 3.5 alone Wink ) and those added up nicely, and give the current prices.
Medium armor +10,000 gp

So, 5 kg of adamantine is worth 3.333 gp (one third of 10.000 for materials) = 666 gp per kg. Since each coin is 10 g (they say it weights 1/3 of an ounce ~10 g). that is 6660 g (6.6 kg) for 5 kg adamantine. So in this case adamantine is the cheaper.

But this probably arises from the fact that they have made those categories, plus we cannot really generalise and say 1/3 of materials for both a breastplade and a full plate, as a full plate will require much more work to fit the parts together.

I'll make a double check when I'm a little more energitized (just got home from reenactment).

Here's another way to look at it from the D&D pricing perspecitive:
Mithral actually has a price per lb, it's 500gp/lb. Gold costs 50gp/lb. This is 10 times the price of gold, now that Mithral might be worked, giving it a cost of 3.3 times the cost of gold unworked. Adamantine seems to at the least cost more than Mithral. From 5 times the cost in a light armour, to 5/3 the cost in heavy armour. At the very least estimate, adamantine is priced 5 times the price of gold from this estimate.

Now, since your players don't have a lot of cash, you could make it cheaper than that. That would help tremendously with us getting better equipment :wink:

1. Just because the Romans did it, doesn't mean it should be introduced in a medieval setting The romans did it, but from 400-1300 economies were almost solely based on natural value. Even after 1300 the way towards representational economy was very long and arduous indeed. In Eberron you can see the beginnings of the system in the letters of credit - how long before you can trade those as representational money?

The economies from 400-1300 were probably based on natural value due to a limit on what you could trade. When you can trade just about anything in big cities. Coins would probably either have to be intrinsic, or fall out of fashion fast.
Imagine you come into Sharn with 5 kgs of adamantine, a man offers to pay you standard price for it. Lets assume this is 10 kgs of gold. Why would you want to take his trade? You could just as well on any other day go to one of the 100k citizens with this kind of money and sell him some Adamantine. All this would solve you would that you can easier use the money piecemeal. But you would still be down from the deal, even though it is the standard fare you are now travelling with 10kgs of stuff, and you can probably only trade your gold down in value. Adamantine on the other hand could be traded up in value.
On the other hand, imagine you are in a bunch of small town, tech level year 800. You have the same 5kgs of adamantine. Somebody offers you 10kgs of gold for it. You take that offer, because you have no idea how long you have to go before you can get your bar of adamantine traded. And your gold can be used in smaller portions.

So my point is: In a large non-intrinsic economy anyone who isn't a complete wacko would take whatever exotic good (be it targath, fruits, spices or adamantine) you came and attempted to bargain with. He would probably be able to trade it on for a small profit to someone who needed it and thus getting extra money for just doing buisiness with you. Even if he couldn't get a profit from it, it would be as good as money in the bank, since trading it on would be little problem, there are enough people around town that somebody needs it and can pay.
In a small non-intrinsic economy (the only place where it actually makes sense, like europe from 400-1300), he wouldn't be taking your spices (or whatever) as valid payment if he didn't know anyone within 20 miles who needed spices. He probably still would barter for it if he could fetch a good price.
In an intrinsic economy, coins are the most sought after commodity (partly due to their security in trade, but moreso because the government says it is). Which means you would only accept something instead of coin if you could sell it for more coin with relative ease.

 

[Dan True]

Tradition has no place in a world were the coins are only worth their weight.

Tradition always has a place. A system can stay idiotic for years based on nothing else but tradition.

If you can be reasonably sure to fetch the same price anywhere you trade with your Targath. And that price is the same as silver, there is no reason not to carry some Targath. Especially if it weighs less.

Also, even though it is a lot rarer it is still worth the same, there is no reason you couldn't just as well have some targath coins. Since it is rarer it would only be worth more if minted, making it very suitable for coins.

You're free to get Targath coins if you want to, but that doesn't guarantee anyone else wishes to accept it as payment - the standard Galifar coins however are supported by the Dragonmarked houses and the nations. If you wish to purchase a permit to open a shop in Sharn, you can be pretty sure the office will not be taking your 5 SP worth of butter (or Targath, or Dragonstone Dust or Dreamlily).

So in this sense the coins ARE worth more than their actual value in metal - but in a non-monetary sense as this value comes from ease of transportation, storage etc. Plus: interchangability - you can put your money in a Kundarak bank in Sharn and then withdraw them at a Bank in Stormreach, and they will be worth the same. The same MIGHT be true for your Targath coins, but not necessarily - as they are not stamped by a legal, centrally controlled establishment who guarantees weight and purity.

Here's another way to look at it from the D&D pricing perspecitive:
Mithral actually has a price per lb, it's 500gp/lb. Gold costs 50gp/lb. This is 10 times the price of gold, now that Mithral might be worked, giving it a cost of 3.3 times the cost of gold unworked. Adamantine seems to at the least cost more than Mithral. From 5 times the cost in a light armour, to 5/3 the cost in heavy armour. At the very least estimate, adamantine is priced 5 times the price of gold from this estimate.

Hmm, this just shows the inconsistency of the D&D economics. I will have a look at it, to see what price to use.

Now, since your players don't have a lot of cash, you could make it cheaper than that. That would help tremendously with us getting better equipment :wink:

Well, you're still pretty new You're not supposed to be able to purchase adamantine gear yet. But I'll have a look at those prices.

In an intrinsic economy, coins are the most sought after commodity (partly due to their security in trade, but moreso because the government says it is). Which means you would only accept something instead of coin if you could sell it for more coin with relative ease.

But this is also how the Eberron economy works - because of some central things.

1. Value - the price for Targath, Fur, Butter or whatever may or may not be the same everywhere. If you have 100 kg butter in Karrnath and take it with you to Sharn, it falls in value as Breland doesn't have a lack of foodstuff. However, the value of the standard coins is regulated fiercely by House Kundarak - and so is the price on the metal they contain.

2. Transportation - it is much easier to transport coin than butter or spices. Especially because of the interchangability I mentioned above.

3. If you decide to trade in Trade Goods instead of established coin, you are potentially competing with powerful guilds and Dragonmarked houses - and they are likely able to undercut your price if they wish to.. meaning you will loose money by trading in those, instead of coin.

So you could say that Eberron is an intrinsic economy - just that the established values of the coins are worth roughly the same their amount of metal.

- Dan

 

[mwsasser]

Sometimes it might be good to stick with the fiction of fantasy and make it cheaper and lighter. Too much realism can bog down a game. I've been caught in this trap before and sometimes too many rules adding new layers of realism take away the fun.