Range of spacecraft's comms systems?

Tepi

Mongoose
How far away can a spacecraft communicate with another craft or a starbase? How much does the range improve if the ship sends the signal to a specific direction (known location of a starbase for example) rather than all directions?

According to the random encounter table Travellers can detect a distress signal a few thousand km's away (up to 120,000km away if they're very good and very lucky). Is the range really that poor?
 
IMTU, any starship (TL 12+) can drive a directional radio signal that is powerful enough to, eventually, be picked by a like radio system @ 2 parsecs.

Don't rely on the rules too much. The sensors listed for TL 12 aren't as good as what we have at TL 7 (real world).
 
Tepi said:
How far away can a spacecraft communicate with another craft or a starbase?
I would see no problem with a system wide communication, but remem-
ber the inevitable time lag in such long distance communications.
 
rust said:
Tepi said:
How far away can a spacecraft communicate with another craft or a starbase?
I would see no problem with a system wide communication, but remem-
ber the inevitable time lag in such long distance communications.

Don't leave him hanging ... so how long is the time lag?
to Next planet?
to Asteroid belt?
to Gas Giant?
to Oort Cloud?

seconds? nimutes? hours? days? longer?
 
atpollard said:
Don't leave him hanging ... so how long is the time lag?
Distances in science fiction settings are usually measured in astronomical
units (AUs), and 1 AU = 499 light seconds, so a radio signal takes a little
more than 8 minutes to travel 1 AU, and an immediate answer can arrive
about 16 minutes after the signal was sent.

Some distance examples from Wikipedia:
The Earth is 1.00 ± 0.02 AU from the Sun
Mars is 1.52 ± 0.14 AU from the Sun
Jupiter is 5.20 ± 0.05 AU from the Sun
Pluto is 39.5 ± 9.8 AU from the Sun
The Kuiper Belt begins at roughly 35 AU
A radio signal from Earth would take approximately 45 minutes to reach
Jupiter, and an immediate answer would arrive about 1 1/2 hours after
the signal was sent.
For Pluto, the times would be approximately 5 1/2 hours and 11 hours.
 
Light takes 1 second to cross 300,000 km of space. Assuming no interventions such as microsingularities intersecting line of sight, a photon would take 1/6 second to cross Distant (50,000 km) range.

Each 1,000,000 km = 3.336 light seconds. Two-way communications at 10,000,000 km would have a light speed delay between transmission of signal and reception of response of at least 66.7 seconds - 1 minute 5 seconds to go there and back again.

Speed Of Light Calculator
 
Directed communications (masers and whatnot) anywhere in a system should be allowed, and IMTU are how most conversations are held.

Because of that, most ships IMTU do not carry sophisticated wide-space scanning equipment, relying on MASER (or similar) directed energy systems for communications.

Here's how I break it down:

For transmitting signals:

All ships have direct beam communication gear that can direct a signal to any destination that the ship can lock onto. This beam's dispersal rate allows some "slop", and it's possible to "spam" a small angular cone if your broadcast system is down. This technology allows relatively private conversations between ships.

All ships also have a broadcasting (generally radio) system that sends out a signal in all directions. This is used for the ship's transponder but can also carry the GK (mayday) signal as well as voice communications if necessary. For safety reasons, this system often has a battery backup. (This system is equivalent to the old practice of "flying the flag")

For receiving signals, both man-made and natural:

Most commercial ships carry what would seem today like fairly simplistic "whole sky" scanners to detect the "broadcast" signals - GK, Transponder and Starport (or an associated beacon) homing signal. These systems are generally low-power active and passive RADAR systems that can do double-duty as signal demodulators.

Basic sensors are the minimum levels required by Imperial law, and can detect Starport signals anywhere in the system (especially since the ship will know about where to look for it), as well as GK and Transponder signals within a close enough range that a 1G ship could feasibly maneuver to give assistance. (Age of Sail equivalent would be the spyglass - just enough of a sensor to ID ships' nationalities and spot land.)

Civilian sensors for "local authority" type ships allow them to detect Transponders and GK signals at longer ranges, but aren't really sensitive or precise enough for monitoring the whole system. (Besides, with light-lag and travel time, a government that wants a presence in the outer system will need to put ships out there.)

Military grade sensors are more like what we'd think should be possible - long range and sophisticated analysis of any radiation, including "boring" civilian activities like Transponder tracking but also including scientific missions and very long range scanning.

Other MTU comms miscellany:

I don't consider the basic landing/docking RADAR equipment to be part of the sensor package, but rather part of the bridge electronics. As such, it's relevant to Piloting and not Sensors or Communications skills.

Transponder signals carry very little information (mostly the equivalent of a GUID and classification for the ship) and are used to help get a passive lock on a ship so that more detailed direct communications can be established. It's easy to turn on/off the transponder, but much more difficult (and illegal) to change its signal.

Imperial Law requires ships and boats to transmit transponder codes, though some captains in dangerous territories only broadcast a code once they've identified what other ships are in the vicinity. No ship is allowed to approach within 100d of the main starport or depart from a starport without activating its transponder, and having to be asked to turn on your transponder is likely to get you boarded or even attacked, depending on the situation.

The ship's computer remembers all transponders detected and keeps a database of known ships (auto-ship-spotting). Since the transponder signal is not very detailed (the ship's class is about all you can get from them), the database entries may be very empty. Players can theoretically "ping" any ships encountered to exchange news and such, but not all captains take kindly to nosy neighbors...
 
Thanks for all the answers! Very helpful.

So if a ship is 100 diameters (one million km) away from a planet and gets attacked by pirates it should be able to contact the starbase of the planet and ask for help. Unless the pirate ship has a jammer.
 
Tepi said:
Unless the pirate ship has a jammer.

Jammers only work against broadcast radio. It is useless against laser communicators, masers, etc. But, yes they could call for help. Unless, the system is a low tech backwater, no pirate would ever be stupid enough to attack as close as the 100D limit. Help is too near for the victim.
 
Tepi said:
Unless the pirate ship has a jammer.
Even if a jammer would work, a jammer signal on an emergency channel
would in itself be enough to convince system defense that something un-
wanted is going on, and since a jammer signal has to be quite powerful to
work, it can easily be located - the pirate ship could just as well send a
message to system defense reading "We are here, we are hostile, and
we are planning to attack a nearby target". :wink:
 
DFW said:
Tepi said:
Unless the pirate ship has a jammer.

Jammers only work against broadcast radio. It is useless against laser communicators, masers, etc. But, yes they could call for help. Unless, the system is a low tech backwater, no pirate would ever be stupid enough to attack as close as the 100D limit. Help is too near for the victim.

Anything in the EM spectrum can be jammed, the jammer just has to be in the same region of the EM spectrum.

I am talking real life though, I'm not sure what jammers exist in Trav.

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
Anything in the EM spectrum can be jammed, the jammer just has to be in the same region of the EM spectrum.

I am talking real life though, I'm not sure what jammers exist in Trav.

LBH

Actually, incorrect. For lasers and masers, you have to intercept the line of site. Simply being "in the same region of the EM spectrum." does nothing at all.
 
lastbesthope said:
Anything in the EM spectrum can be jammed, the jammer just has to be in the same region of the EM spectrum.
True in theory, but almost impossible for laser or maser in real life. The
only way I see for preventing a laser or maser signal from reaching its
intended target is to block it.
 
Ah - not if the pirates are equipped with http://opac.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=8272

Just kidding ;)

Seriously, this tech will likely have application in numerous fields - the articles I've seen mention optical computing and radiology - but I can see all sorts of industrial sensor and non-destructive testing applications, not to mention communications. A more technical paper can be found here - http://www.eng.yale.edu/caolab/papers/Sci11b.pdf

(Note high-tech laser/maser 'jammers' are conceivable given a sufficiently advanced TL, but not in the range Traveller normally covers. Of course, low tech jammers are always possible - 'simply' block the emmitter (i.e. cover the ship!) ;) )
 
BP said:
Note high-tech laser/maser 'jammers' are conceivable given a sufficiently advanced TL, but not in the range Traveller normally covers.
Well, one can always saturate the laser receiver with a laser beam that is
stronger than the laser communication signal, just fire at it with a laser
cannon - but I am not sure whether I would call this "jamming". 8)
 
DFW said:
lastbesthope said:
Anything in the EM spectrum can be jammed, the jammer just has to be in the same region of the EM spectrum.

I am talking real life though, I'm not sure what jammers exist in Trav.

LBH

Actually, incorrect. For lasers and masers, you have to intercept the line of site. Simply being "in the same region of the EM spectrum." does nothing at all.

It does if you overload the receiver with enough of your own jamming transmission to jam out the intended signal.

You don't have to intercept the transmission, simply drown it out at point of reception.

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
It does if you overload the receiver with enough of your own jamming transmission to jam out the intended signal.

You don't have to intercept the transmission, simply drown it out at point of reception.

LBH

For systems that are designed for secure comm and to resist jamming, you need to get into LOS to even hit the receiver. Hence my earlier post...
 
Traveller Core Rulebook page: 63 said:
Radio communications allow communications as long as the radio signal can get through - they can be jammed or blocked by local conditions.

Laser can be jammed by other laser comms systems in direct line of sight, but it is exceedingly difficult. They can also be blocked by smoke, aerosols or other obstacles.

Masers: These work just like lasers, but can cut through smoke and aerosols. Masers can be jammed by other maser comms systems.

Meson communicators cannot be jammed or blocked.

Book 4 Mercenary said:
Most jammers are not effective against tight beam laser communication, however.

Book 6 Scoundrel said:
An EM Scanner can detect radio, laser and microwave communications...
 
In responsxe to the last 2 posts, as I said I'm talking real life, not Trav, and AndrewW's post has clued me in on the Trav take on it.

When I GM an RPG, if I know real life is different from the game, and RL suits me better I use RL rules, each to their own

That's why I'm going to have to give my players a briefing on weapons tech when I run A2089 for them, they lack mycurrent insider knowledge of modern and future weapon systems.

I mean who hasn't had a dream involving how to solve that network centric weapon system they've been working on for the last month???? :lol:

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
..who hasn't had a dream involving how to solve that network centric weapon system they've been working on for the last month???? :lol:

LBH
You too? :lol:

('Course, think I got it nailed down, though the 50 ms time delay on the interconnects is gonna be a real...)
 
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