Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
It doesn't work that way. It's not the suction; it's the external pressure, of which there is none in space.
Quick Jump Turnaround
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Mount a gravity plate inside the tank to suck it down when emptied?
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
Pressure differential causes the collapse. Pressure differential is also used to help things maintain their shape like the inflatable Santas some people put up at Christmas. If the differential is too great the object can be crushed or can burst.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Might work, but I think a mechanical system might be best. I figure it might be collapsible to only 10% of its size, but that's just guessing. MixCorp is going to make one just because.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Collapsable Fuel Tanks for inside of the ship are 1%, so 10% for the same, only external, makes good sense to me.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I figured hard-sided would take more space, even if designed to collapse. Not sure if 10% is too much though.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Could make it like an accordion.
We can't use fuel bladders, because it explicitly forbids that in High Guard in an internal storage, and certainly, that would apply to it externally.
Why this is, beyond game mechanics, I wouldn't know, so the going assumption would be that the gas tank supplying hydrogen, directly to the jump drive, needs a certain rigidity during the transfer.
After which, it can collapse.
We can't use fuel bladders, because it explicitly forbids that in High Guard in an internal storage, and certainly, that would apply to it externally.
Why this is, beyond game mechanics, I wouldn't know, so the going assumption would be that the gas tank supplying hydrogen, directly to the jump drive, needs a certain rigidity during the transfer.
After which, it can collapse.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
It could be custom designed for a ship so that it is set up with the extra jump drive capacity to handle it.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
That only works if the tank is flexible, elastic, or some such but it should work.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
An externally mounted collapsible tank will need the collapsing and gathering/folding mechanism, an internal collapsible tank likely uses cargo hold air pressurisation to collapse the tank, it still needs to be neatly folded and gathered into a smallest volume footprint.
I'd be happy to just go with 1% for either, but a little extra for external mounting sounds reasonable too, in the range 2 to 5%. Would it cost a hardpoint...
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Good question.
ishldgetoutmore
Banded Mongoose
It's really hard to see how this would be economically feasible in the Real World (assuming, of course, we had gravitic tech) when compared to a simple mechanical collapsing tank; even one with automation would probably be cheaper in the short term than specialized grav plates.
Thanks S. I was not doubting you but was holding off a full LBB search.
And it makes sense. The ship has transitioned to and from Jumpspace and spent a week there. You would expect that things would have been stressed, parts maybe approaching failure. Flight checks would be highly reccommended, not just for the jump drive. Checks that can't be entirely done in Jumpspace, because they're partially related to exiting Jumpspace in the first place. Even simple remote observation of the hull would need to wait until you can send out a camera.
And certainly, you would want a fresh jump plot done during normal operations - that's only likely to take an hour or so.
And it makes sense. The ship has transitioned to and from Jumpspace and spent a week there. You would expect that things would have been stressed, parts maybe approaching failure. Flight checks would be highly reccommended, not just for the jump drive. Checks that can't be entirely done in Jumpspace, because they're partially related to exiting Jumpspace in the first place. Even simple remote observation of the hull would need to wait until you can send out a camera.
And certainly, you would want a fresh jump plot done during normal operations - that's only likely to take an hour or so.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Making a MixCorp writeup for one is on my to-do list for tomorrow.
I just noticed I was about half a dozen posts late on that idea, so I deleted it 
Probably the simplest setup would be a tank that's normally collapsed, but expands and is held rigid by the pressure as its filled. So all you need to do is open the valve to drain it.
Of course, even a simple rigid tank will empty itself to equilibrium with whatever space is on the other side of the valve, and if you drain that quickly enough it all just works mechanically.
Probably the simplest setup would be a tank that's normally collapsed, but expands and is held rigid by the pressure as its filled. So all you need to do is open the valve to drain it.
Of course, even a simple rigid tank will empty itself to equilibrium with whatever space is on the other side of the valve, and if you drain that quickly enough it all just works mechanically.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
MixCorp is always coming up withI just noticed I was about half a dozen posts late on that idea, so I deleted it
Probably the simplest setup would be a tank that's normally collapsed, but expands and is held rigid by the pressure as its filled. So all you need to do is open the valve to drain it.
Of course, even a simple rigid tank will empty itself to equilibrium with whatever space is on the other side of the valve, and if you drain that quickly enough it all just works mechanically.
I'm thinking two versions. One that is made to be inset into the hull and takes up 5% of it's full volume from the ship's tonnage and pushes the hull plate out as it is filled and draws it in and locks it down as part of the jump process while injecting the fuel.
The second is a pod on the exterior of the hull and adds 10% of the full volume to the ship at jump time. As that one would make a ship unstreamlined (or so I think I remember reading somewhere, even if it is streamlined, which is annoying), it woild be for ships not normally entering the atmosphere.
This ships will look like frogs inflating their air pouches, but firms will save money!
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To Tha Moon!
Cosmic Mongoose
With Drop Tanks, a Scout is going 4 Parsecs in 2 weeks.
But you have to leave the tanks in the system where you got them.
Here is an Idea,
Think of a Box, 5 of the 6 sides are solid. The 6th side, the lid, is connected to the box with something similar to an accordion bladder. When the box is completely full the lid is puffed out almost doubling the area of the box. As the fuel is used the accordion walls fold and the lid settles on the four walls closing the box.
Where your tank is normally located in the ship is 5 of the 6 sides and the area of the tank that is the outer hull being the 6th and movable. Of course I would put guides in the corners to help keep the lid in position. The corners would have the piston concept. Fill the tube with air and teh piston moves pushing the lid up expanding the tank. Remove the air and the piston comes down bringing the lid to a closed position collapsing the tank.
Think of a Box, 5 of the 6 sides are solid. The 6th side, the lid, is connected to the box with something similar to an accordion bladder. When the box is completely full the lid is puffed out almost doubling the area of the box. As the fuel is used the accordion walls fold and the lid settles on the four walls closing the box.
Where your tank is normally located in the ship is 5 of the 6 sides and the area of the tank that is the outer hull being the 6th and movable. Of course I would put guides in the corners to help keep the lid in position. The corners would have the piston concept. Fill the tube with air and teh piston moves pushing the lid up expanding the tank. Remove the air and the piston comes down bringing the lid to a closed position collapsing the tank.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The problem has always been there was no mechanisms to actually implement the ideas in High Guard.
Three ideas I had were somewhat similar.
1. The default fuel tanks have a piston that moves inward as the tanks empty, which, of course, reduces volume; since the tanks are empty before transition, jump calculations are based on the resultant negative volume.
2. Pop up tanks, though you'd have to ensure that the pop up mechanism doesn't permit leakage.
3. Simplified collapse, in that one of the walls of the tank, usually the roof, opens up.
Three ideas I had were somewhat similar.
1. The default fuel tanks have a piston that moves inward as the tanks empty, which, of course, reduces volume; since the tanks are empty before transition, jump calculations are based on the resultant negative volume.
2. Pop up tanks, though you'd have to ensure that the pop up mechanism doesn't permit leakage.
3. Simplified collapse, in that one of the walls of the tank, usually the roof, opens up.
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