Questions on armageddon shadows

[Locutus9956]

and the moral of the story is: dont f**k with the Vorlons or they'll blow you right out of the galaxy

I still maintain that both Vorlon and Shadow fleets should be powerful to the point of near invincibility against the younger races and should be designed for use in scenarios etc rather than one 'fair' games/tourneys.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Having played and won often with the old vorlons, I suspect my chances of using the new vorlons when the other players see the stats will be rather slim, oh well.

Greg, you playtested the shadows you said, do you know why the weapon arcs were changed? Was this a definite decision by someone, and was there a specific reason for it? Tried to get an answer from Wulf, but he was doing an eel impression and couldn't pin him down.

 

[Greg Smith]

The change was made because we never see the Shadows fire anything but forwards in the series. Personally I disagreed as I thought it was an unneccesary reduction in the ship's capabilities.

 

[Burger]

I thought the T weapon arc represented the SS's ability to spin on a dime, and fire in any direction it wanted, rather than the physical location of the source of the beam.

Oh well.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

If the arc is based on the series, then the arc should be rear, not forward. I'm pretty certain that in the series you see the ships moving with the spines behind them. When the ship fires, it fires from among the spines. I could of course be wrong.

However while I don't like the change as it makes the shadows, which were already a difficult fleet to play, even more challenging, I will try them before I start complaining.

 

[Ripple]

Have to disagree that the Vorlons/Shadows should only be special scenario ships. Major element of the series that people would like to explore. And we do see the younger races destroy and/or damage both of them in the series. The battles are lopside with with the larger ships sure, but I think interesting stuff should be doable with the smaller ships without having to play a twenty ship scenario.

Ripple

 

[philogara]

I agree it would be boring to have Shadows and Vorlons et al reduced to scenarios, but they still need to stand out as something appreciably superior to the Younger races. This is where I think Armageddon could have done something, by putting these ships in a unique "Ancients-only" level. Instead, nearly every race seems to have to get in on the act.

Ho hum.

 

[Hash]

Its much better to make a comparison between the PL choices. That is, compare the old Ship to the new Hunter.

From SFOS:
War choice: damage goes from 150 damage to 175. Repair goes from 2d6 to 3d6. Weapon goes from 5AD T to 6AD F.
Raid choice: damage goes from 58 to 75.

From tourney stats:
War choice: damage goes from 200 to 175. Weapon goes from T to F.
Raid choice: same.

So, Shadows are better than they were in SFOS, but not as good as they were in the tourney list. They lose their Battle level choice, and gain an Armageddon.

Couldn't have said it better myself - the Shadows were actually very much nerfed in tournaments (although the Battle choice deserved it!) - the only thing I would add to your analysis is the War choice for tourney gains 4 flights of fighters....not that useful but something at least!

I also personally think there are almost no situations to justify a Shadow ship vs. two Shadow Hunters regardless of PL level played...the main reason I used to take the Shadow Ship in preference at times was precisely because of that T - arc weaponry...ho hum, guess no one really cares that much but I was very dissapointed with that - I agree with Greg that it was probably unnecessary.

 

[Voronesh]

Im against boosting First ones to historical strengths.

Then Minbari would clamor to be invincible against any of the yonger races as well.

DIlgar would be nerfed into oblivion. they did defeat LONAW but didnt stand a chance against EA....

No need to open that can of problems.

 

[Triggy]

The Shadows and Vorlons lists are now pretty much spot on...all apart from the Shadow Ship! To be a balanced Armageddon level ship (not just better than War level!) it would have to be improved, something along the lines of 300 damage and 10AD, keeping everything else the same. As it stands, it's about War and a half...certainly not as good as a Warlock, Victory, Vorlon Heavy Cruiser, etc.