Questions about nanobots

[J. L. Brown]

Question the first:
Construction & Environmental nanobots have a cost listed 'per slot per hour'. So it seems that a 100 ml 'package' of TL 13 'Basic' construction nanobots (which are equal in capability to 'Basic' fabrication chambers) can build one slot worth of stuff in an hour if you spent 10000 Cr on them(which are equal in capability to 'Basic' fabrication chambers) can build one slot worth of stuff in an hour if you spent 10000 Cr on them. Another, fancier, 100 ml 'package' of TL 13 'Basic' construction nanobots (which are equal in capability to 'Basic' fabrication chambers) could build two slots worth of stuff in an hour if you had spent 20000 Cr to initially purchase them. More expensive nanobots can do more in a single hour. Fine.

Is there an upper limit? If someone was willing to spend the cash, could they buy a normal 100 ml 'package' of TL 13 'Basic' construction nanobots which could build a whole planets' worth of stuff every hour?

Question the second:

Specific nanorobots can be designed by an individual with the Science (robotics) skill and appropriate equipment, such as an enhanced fabrication chamber and a computer running Fab Creator software (see page 123).

This is unclear; to build TL 13 nanobots at TL 13 requires 'the appropriate equipment'. That 'appropriate equipment' is listed above; but a TL 13 fabrication chamber is only capable of making TL 11 items. Is it impossible to build TL 13 nanobots until TL 15 equipment is available? How are TL 15 nanobots built?

In Robot Handbook Update, page 225 there is a listing for a (TL 14) Construction Nano Queen. It has an on-board fabrication chamber which can produce (and recycle -- apparently without a deconstruction chamber) nanobots. I am having some trouble understanding how it works as described.

 

[Geir]

Question the first:
Construction & Environmental nanobots have a cost listed 'per slot per hour'. So it seems that a 100 ml 'package' of TL 13 'Basic' construction nanobots (which are equal in capability to 'Basic' fabrication chambers) can build one slot worth of stuff in an hour if you spent 10000 Cr on them(which are equal in capability to 'Basic' fabrication chambers) can build one slot worth of stuff in an hour if you spent 10000 Cr on them. Another, fancier, 100 ml 'package' of TL 13 'Basic' construction nanobots (which are equal in capability to 'Basic' fabrication chambers) could build two slots worth of stuff in an hour if you had spent 20000 Cr to initially purchase them. More expensive nanobots can do more in a single hour. Fine.

Is there an upper limit? If someone was willing to spend the cash, could they buy a normal 100 ml 'package' of TL 13 'Basic' construction nanobots which could build a whole planets' worth of stuff every hour?

If you had the trillions required, I suppose you could, but since they only last a few weeks, best build some cleanup nanos too. Or sweeperbots.

So 4 dtons (~1000 slots) an hour for 10 million - but only a structure with no wiring, or for 50 million, a simple TL6ish housing complex one stateroom-sized abode an hour. 50 billion gets you a city block an hour (now we're talking) but it's more like 50 trillion to build a city in an hour... But then you need a whole bunch of bots to add fancier electronics and the conveniences of home.

Question the second:

This is unclear; to build TL 13 nanobots at TL 13 requires 'the appropriate equipment'. That 'appropriate equipment' is listed above; but a TL 13 fabrication chamber is only capable of making TL 11 items. Is it impossible to build TL 13 nanobots until TL 15 equipment is available? How are TL 15 nanobots built?

Until TL17 you're stuck with TL-2, so you shouldn't be able to build stuff out of a fabricator at the same TL until then. Need a factory (not listed: perhaps an equivalent High Guard specialised manufacturing plant?).

In Robot Handbook Update, page 225 there is a listing for a (TL 14) Construction Nano Queen. It has an on-board fabrication chamber which can produce (and recycle -- apparently without a deconstruction chamber) nanobots. I am having some trouble understanding how it works as described.

Yeah, there's some problem with the logic there, I agree. Should have made it TL15 spitting out TL13 nanos. The thinking (flawed perhaps) is that the gunked up broken down nanos are the equivalent of raw materials for recycling. The nano queen (which I originally called the Swarm Mother) probably needs a bit of a touch-up. Increase its size by one (four more slots), give it a deconstruction chamber... I'm making a note on my errata doc.

 

[J. L. Brown]

If you had the trillions required, I suppose you could, but since they only last a few weeks, best build some cleanup nanos too. Or sweeperbots.

So 4 dtons (~1000 slots) an hour for 10 million - but only a structure with no wiring, or for 50 million, a simple TL6ish housing complex one stateroom-sized abode an hour. 50 billion gets you a city block an hour (now we're talking) but it's more like 50 trillion to build a city in an hour... But then you need a whole bunch of bots to add fancier electronics and the conveniences of home.

I was looking at building infrastructure (or terraforming) with nanobots -- canals, flood control, tunnels, roads, bridges, sidewalks, bike paths, rail lines, dykes, terraces and wells, and so on.

A size 5 planet is ~1985800 giga-displacement tons. Getting all the work done for a planet (with only 100 ml of nanobots, in a week) means 118 202 giga-displacement tons per hour (30259810 giga-'slots' per hour) -- of course, that creates the problem of how they communicate with a swarm controller (which seems to be limited to 50m). If a Nano Queen controls 8 swarms & transforms a 100m sphere (38785 dTons) every hour, that is much easier -- a 'mere' 4849 dTons (1241124 'slots') per hour per swarm. In the base-case of the Nano Queen trundling along the surface, half of that sphere will be sky, so maybe that could be a way to save some credits; for the moment I'll just go with 'transform the entire volume'. For Construction & Soil Creation nanobots, that is 12.41 GCr per swarm; 99.29 GCr to load it at the beginning, and another 49.64 GCr per year to keep it supplied -- Excavation nanos are half that price.

A size 5 planet has a surface area of 20.1 giga-hectares, so doing a hectare per hour (50 m deep) still takes a while (2.3 million years; pro-tip: use more than one).

Until TL17 you're stuck with TL-2, so you shouldn't be able to build stuff out of a fabricator at the same TL until then. Need a factory (not listed: perhaps an equivalent High Guard specialised manufacturing plant?).

I like the idea of using a 'Manufacturing Plant' as a starting point; they can apparently produce items of their own tech level.

A 'Specialist' manufacturing plant takes up 10 dTons per ton produced per 24 hours; so a 10 slot 'Specialist' manufactory could produce 1 slot worth of stuff per day, and cost 39062.5 Cr -- but no inputs or costs are given, and the power (and crew) requirements are unclear. I suspect some re-calibration of these numbers might be needed.

Yeah, there's some problem with the logic there, I agree. Should have made it TL15 spitting out TL13 nanos. The thinking (flawed perhaps) is that the gunked up broken down nanos are the equivalent of raw materials for recycling. The nano queen (which I originally called the Swarm Mother) probably needs a bit of a touch-up. Increase its size by one (four more slots), give it a deconstruction chamber... I'm making a note on my errata doc.

I am happy to know that I have contributed; best of luck with your efforts!

Also: maybe it would be good to clarify that the output of a deconstruction chamber is 'recyclable materials', plus information of either the of TL of the item deconstructed, or the TL of the deconstruction chamber -- whichever is lower.

 

[MasterGwydion]

If you had the trillions required, I suppose you could, but since they only last a few weeks, best build some cleanup nanos too. Or sweeperbots.

So 4 dtons (~1000 slots) an hour for 10 million - but only a structure with no wiring, or for 50 million, a simple TL6ish housing complex one stateroom-sized abode an hour. 50 billion gets you a city block an hour (now we're talking) but it's more like 50 trillion to build a city in an hour... But then you need a whole bunch of bots to add fancier electronics and the conveniences of home.

Until TL17 you're stuck with TL-2, so you shouldn't be able to build stuff out of a fabricator at the same TL until then. Need a factory (not listed: perhaps an equivalent High Guard specialised manufacturing plant?).

I just use the Specialist Manufacturing Plants to build robots. Nanobots are robots.

Yeah, there's some problem with the logic there, I agree. Should have made it TL15 spitting out TL13 nanos. The thinking (flawed perhaps) is that the gunked up broken down nanos are the equivalent of raw materials for recycling. The nano queen (which I originally called the Swarm Mother) probably needs a bit of a touch-up. Increase its size by one (four more slots), give it a deconstruction chamber... I'm making a note on my errata doc.

 

[Sigtrygg]

ml means mililitre - can we please remove this silly, unnecessary and erroneous metric litre abreviation.

If you mean litre say so, or use the cubic decimetre if you want a cubic something.

 

[J. L. Brown]

ml means mililitre - can we please remove this silly, unnecessary and erroneous metric litre abreviation.

If you mean litre say so, or use the cubic decimetre if you want a cubic something.

I am perfectly aware of what 'ml' stands for, which is precisely why I used it (correctly) to talk about the size of the nano swarms.

Robot Handbook Update p 83 under 'Nanorobots' :

Nanorobots are not sold individually but in packages, usually a 0.1 litre or 0.1 kilogram container filled with millions of nanorobots designed for a single purpose.

Same page under 'Medical Nanorobots':

After a maximum of 15 active packages or 1.5 litres of active nanorobots, ....

Page 84 under 'Construction Nanorobots':

Cost is indicated in Slots of structure produced per hour, which is the maximum capability of a 0.1-litre bag of construction nanos.

The 'Environmental Nanobots' section does not talk about the size of a swarm, which some folks might use to argue that these nanites are sold in larger (to suit their larger-scale projects) swarms, but I think the size of a 'swarm' is pretty well defined. This volume definition of nanoronots is used repeatedly, including in the description of the robot I mentioned (the Construction Nano Queen):

The Construction Nano Queen is equipped with two advanced swarm controllers, allowing simultaneous operation of up to 0.8 litres of construction nanos performing multiple tasks.

It normally carries eight 0.1 litre packages of nanos, as that is the most it can control ...

The robot can carry up to two litres (20 packages) of nanos or nano components internally

While it might also be correct to refer to nano swarms as packages of 0.7039 gi or 1557.2 cubic Barleycorns, I am sticking with the system of measurement that Trveller started with; the metric system. Apologies if moving a decimal caused you distress.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I am perfectly aware of what 'ml' stands for, which is precisely why I used it (correctly) to talk about the size of the nano swarms.

Robot Handbook Update p 83 under 'Nanorobots' :

Same page under 'Medical Nanorobots':

Page 84 under 'Construction Nanorobots':


The 'Environmental Nanobots' section does not talk about the size of a swarm, which some folks might use to argue that these nanites are sold in larger (to suit their larger-scale projects) swarms, but I think the size of a 'swarm' is pretty well defined. This volume definition of nanoronots is used repeatedly, including in the description of the robot I mentioned (the Construction Nano Queen):







While it might also be correct to refer to nano swarms as packages of 0.7039 gi or 1557.2 cubic Barleycorns, I am sticking with the system of measurement that Trveller started with; the metric system. Apologies if moving a decimal caused you distress.

I think you mean Deciliter or dl, which is 0.1 liters. Milliliter or ml is 0.001 liters. Doesn't matter. I understood what you meant.

 

[J. L. Brown]

I think you mean Deciliter or dl, which is 0.1 liters. Milliliter or ml is 0.001 liters. Doesn't matter. I understood what you meant.

or (as I used it) 100 ml = 1 dl = 0.1 liter.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I am perfectly aware of what 'ml' stands for, which is precisely why I used it (correctly) to talk about the size of the nano swarms.

I apologise, I thought it odd now I can see I'm in total error. I thought it was "metric litres" rearing their ugly head again

 

[Terry Mixon]

I apologise, I thought it odd now I can see I'm in total error. I thought it was "metric litres" rearing their ugly head again

Or cubic liters.

 

[J. L. Brown]

I apologise, I thought it odd now I can see I'm in total error. I thought it was "metric litres" rearing their ugly head again

Yeah, I might have over-reacted; I'm sorry, too.

Usually your input is very insightful; and even if I don't always agree, it is interesting to see a take from someone who runs the numbers.

 

[Arkathan]

Or cubic liters.

Sounds like when I was in the Navy and everyone on the ship measured things in cubic buttloads.
No one could agree on how big one was... or why anyone was inserting cubes into it.