Questions about Fabrication Chambers

Any idea what and how those plants would produce the raw feed materials? Seems like a lot of things might go into different flavors for it. Raw materials for common items would be very different than high end computers for ships. What kind of setup would be needed and where would the supply lines come from to have what was needed? I suppose asteroid mining might get some of that is needed. There really aren't many details on feedstock.
I did this with a Mining and Manufacturing Ship. Build 1-ton worth of Manufacturing Plant for each thing you want to build. Adv Electronics, Advanced Machine Parts, and Advanced Weapons would be 3-tons worth of Manufacturing Plant, Advanced. Do that for each category of item you would need to build the item. Basic, Advanced, Specialist, and Agricultural. Feed them from a Mineral Refinery/Smelter. Common Raw Materials for Basic Goods (Basic Machine Parts, etc) Uncommon Raw Materials for Advanced Goods (Advanced Electronics, etc) The Agriculture one produces whatever organics you need for bio-printing. The Specialist Manufacturing Plant uses Basic or Advanced Goods as the raw materials for Specialist goods (Robots, cybernetics, etc) I use a 50% rule across the board, since you have to go in stages of processing, but there is no waste.

I use the speed of construction as a maximum speed. Usually, it seems that I am more limited by the speed of the Manufacturing Plants to produce materials for the Fabricator, at least without having a very large workforce just to feed the Fabricator.

I suppose you could use the same rules in reverse for using the fabrication chamber to deconstruct items into their component parts, but you won't get a blueprint like you would with an actual Deconstruction Chamber.

Just My ideas. None of these rules are in the books. All are house rules.
 
I did this with a Mining and Manufacturing Ship. Build 1-ton worth of Manufacturing Plant for each thing you want to build. Adv Electronics, Advanced Machine Parts, and Advanced Weapons would be 3-tons worth of Manufacturing Plant, Advanced. Do that for each category of item you would need to build the item. Basic, Advanced, Specialist, and Agricultural. Feed them from a Mineral Refinery/Smelter. Common Raw Materials for Basic Goods (Basic Machine Parts, etc) Uncommon Raw Materials for Advanced Goods (Advanced Electronics, etc) The Agriculture one produces whatever organics you need for bio-printing. The Specialist Manufacturing Plant uses Basic or Advanced Goods as the raw materials for Specialist goods (Robots, cybernetics, etc) I use a 50% rule across the board, since you have to go in stages of processing, but there is no waste.

I use the speed of construction as a maximum speed. Usually, it seems that I am more limited by the speed of the Manufacturing Plants to produce materials for the Fabricator, at least without having a very large workforce just to feed the Fabricator.

I suppose you could use the same rules in reverse for using the fabrication chamber to deconstruct items into their component parts, but you won't get a blueprint like you would with an actual Deconstruction Chamber.

Just My ideas. None of these rules are in the books. All are house rules.
Good ideas and I will use them. My scientist has an invented the breakthrough to merge the deconstruction and fabrication chambers in my universe. Deconstruct, get patterns and raw materials, and build things with the same machine.
 
cup-of-coffee-animation-2zj4y47tkl5wm5bo.gif


Science will allow you to print a replicated coffee bean.

Art, will imprint a specific aroma and flavour onto it.
 
The two things are so similar, I figure they will have to merge at some point. Not sure what tech level that would naturally happen at. Thoughts?
If you add a robot brain to the chamber, I would say take the minimum TL for the Fab and the Decon. Or without a robot brain, then take the minimum TL for each device, and +1 the minimum TLs to combine them into one machine.
 
Any idea what and how those plants would produce the raw feed materials? Seems like a lot of things might go into different flavors for it. Raw materials for common items would be very different than high end computers for ships. What kind of setup would be needed and where would the supply lines come from to have what was needed? I suppose asteroid mining might get some of that is needed. There really aren't many details on feedstock.

What I'd been considering was using the spec trading categories to buy various goods if they were cheap and deconstructing them for raw materials. While it's not directly making the raw materials, I suppose I could use half the base cost as a marker for making those kinds of items. For example, Robots have a base cost of Cr 300,000. Maybe the raw materials to make that kind of thing are Cr 150,000 per ton base cost.

It still leaves gaps, but it would be funny as heck having people ask him what he's using all the trade goods he buys, yet has no ship and never resells any of it. ;)

There is an article in JTAS (JTAS#11 page 09) about a little empire that briefly stumbled onto the technology for a TL 16 'Hop' drive; and they built 10-parsec freighters to haul around standard modules. A pair of ships -- carrying 4 modules (a total of 2000 dTons) -- would establish a colony. Later modules could be added later to upgrade the colony. The 'TL 9 Manufacturing Module' is described as '400 tons of basic, advanced, and specialist manufacturing plants, and 100 tons of power plant.'; the TL 10, TL 11, and TL 12 versions of the same module are exactly the same, but also include the line 'Requires prior TL Manufacturing module.'

The 'Agricultural' manufacturing plant is sized to 10 workers, feeds 1000 people per day, and is included in the 'Habitation' module. Otherwise, it seems like a colony of 1k to 1000k can raise their TL (up to TL 12, at least) with just 400 dTons of appropriate manufacturing plants. Manufacturing plants simply produce X tons of goods for Y tons of feedstock; there does not appear to be any 'wastage'; not any correlation between the value of goods produced and the value of feedstock consumed. Each of the Trade Goods is listed on at table on High Guard 2022 page 68; alongside the type of manufacturing plant which can produce it.

I would tend to lean towards 'Common Electronics, Machine Parts, Manufactured Goods' being the feedstock needed to produce Advanced & Agricultural manufacturing plants (at a Basic MP), and 'Advanced Electronics, Machine Parts, Manufactured Goods' being required to build a Specialist manufacturing plant (at an Advanced MP). This means that a 'Basic' MP is enough to kickstart everything else.
 
There is an article in JTAS (JTAS#11 page 09) about a little empire that briefly stumbled onto the technology for a TL 16 'Hop' drive; and they built 10-parsec freighters to haul around standard modules. A pair of ships -- carrying 4 modules (a total of 2000 dTons) -- would establish a colony. Later modules could be added later to upgrade the colony. The 'TL 9 Manufacturing Module' is described as '400 tons of basic, advanced, and specialist manufacturing plants, and 100 tons of power plant.'; the TL 10, TL 11, and TL 12 versions of the same module are exactly the same, but also include the line 'Requires prior TL Manufacturing module.'

The 'Agricultural' manufacturing plant is sized to 10 workers, feeds 1000 people per day, and is included in the 'Habitation' module. Otherwise, it seems like a colony of 1k to 1000k can raise their TL (up to TL 12, at least) with just 400 dTons of appropriate manufacturing plants. Manufacturing plants simply produce X tons of goods for Y tons of feedstock; there does not appear to be any 'wastage'; not any correlation between the value of goods produced and the value of feedstock consumed. Each of the Trade Goods is listed on at table on High Guard 2022 page 68; alongside the type of manufacturing plant which can produce it.

I would tend to lean towards 'Common Electronics, Machine Parts, Manufactured Goods' being the feedstock needed to produce Advanced & Agricultural manufacturing plants (at a Basic MP), and 'Advanced Electronics, Machine Parts, Manufactured Goods' being required to build a Specialist manufacturing plant (at an Advanced MP). This means that a 'Basic' MP is enough to kickstart everything else.
I struggled with this as well. What I came up with, is this.

The tonnage of goods that are produced in a day is the maximum. They will produce less if they are building if the tonnage of materials produced exceeds twice the value of the supplies being used.

Basic Manufacturing Plants require Common Raw Materials equal to 50% of the value of the goods being produced.
Advanced Manufacturing Plants require Uncommon Raw Materials equal to 50% of the value of the goods being produced.
Agricultural Manufacturing Plants require Consumables equal to 50% of the value of the goods being produced.
Specialist Manufacturing Plants require Advanced Manufacturing Plant goods equal to 50% of the value of the goods being produced.

Hope this helps.
 
I wonder if this is one of those places where the Primitive/Basic/Improved/Enhanced/Advanced/Superior" (PBIEAS) system would be appropriate. We might need to expand the list of 'feed stocks' to match.

Primitive Electronics -- TL 3+
Basic Electronics -- TL 4+
Improved Electronics -- TL 6+ 10kCr/dTon Purchase DM: +1 (Rich); +2 (Industrial); +3 (High Tech) Sale DM: +1 (Poor); +1 (Low Tech); +2 (non-Industrial)
Enhanced Electronics -- TL 9+
Advanced Electronics -- TL 13+ 87.5kCr/dTon Purchase DM: +2 (Industrial); +3 (High Tech) Sale DM: +2 (Rich); +2 (non-Industrial); +3 (Asteroid)
Superior Electronics -- TL 18+

There is a bunch to fill in.
 
I wonder if this is one of those places where the Primitive/Basic/Improved/Enhanced/Advanced/Superior" (PBIEAS) system would be appropriate. We might need to expand the list of 'feed stocks' to match.

Primitive Electronics -- TL 3+
Basic Electronics -- TL 4+
Improved Electronics -- TL 6+ 10kCr/dTon Purchase DM: +1 (Rich); +2 (Industrial); +3 (High Tech) Sale DM: +1 (Poor); +1 (Low Tech); +2 (non-Industrial)
Enhanced Electronics -- TL 9+
Advanced Electronics -- TL 13+ 87.5kCr/dTon Purchase DM: +2 (Industrial); +3 (High Tech) Sale DM: +2 (Rich); +2 (non-Industrial); +3 (Asteroid)
Superior Electronics -- TL 18+

There is a bunch to fill in.
I agree that it needs something. Right now, only Ht planets can build Advanced Goods from the Trade Table in the CRB. To be considered a Ht world, the average TL must be TL-12 or higher. Advanced goods are from TL-10 to some unknown upper limit. So, My question is this? Who produces the TL-10 and TL-11 Advanced Goods? Obviously not a TL-10 or TL-11 world, since that is impossible by the Trade Rules, but not by the production rules for Manufacturing Plants in HG.
 
I wonder if this is one of those places where the Primitive/Basic/Improved/Enhanced/Advanced/Superior" (PBIEAS) system would be appropriate. We might need to expand the list of 'feed stocks' to match.

Primitive Electronics -- TL 3+
Basic Electronics -- TL 4+
Improved Electronics -- TL 6+ 10kCr/dTon Purchase DM: +1 (Rich); +2 (Industrial); +3 (High Tech) Sale DM: +1 (Poor); +1 (Low Tech); +2 (non-Industrial)
Enhanced Electronics -- TL 9+
Advanced Electronics -- TL 13+ 87.5kCr/dTon Purchase DM: +2 (Industrial); +3 (High Tech) Sale DM: +2 (Rich); +2 (non-Industrial); +3 (Asteroid)
Superior Electronics -- TL 18+

There is a bunch to fill in.
I agree with this. I would love to see this detailed as I have an NPC that built a superior fabricator (combined with a deconstructor) and I’ve been winging it.
 
I agree with this. I would love to see this detailed as I have an NPC that built a superior fabricator (combined with a deconstructor) and I’ve been winging it.
The key is to define the underlying stuff first. Traveller already has definitions for what makes up a Technology Level, and allows different regions of technology to advance ahead or behind a worlds' 'average' TL. Power Generation, Power Storage, Transportation, Gravitics, Medicine, Computing, Communication, Agriculture, etc -- all of that (and more) needs to be defined, even if it is just a 'Hey, this is sci-fi so we are forced to make up some numbers' the numbers have to be explicit and consistent. How much energy does it take to run a grav-belt? Nobody knows -- but at the same TL, it ought to take less energy to cancel the weight of a single person than to cancel the weight of a fully-loaded double-decker bus.

Once we have defined what TLs are made of, we can figure out what goods they produce, and what it takes to produce them. I think it makes sense to specify that each TL produces less waste than each preceding TL; things get lighter, stronger, more compact, more capable, and less costly to produce. Materials are more effectively recycled at higher TLs. So we define the bare bones, then agree that 'Each TL is an X% (overall) improvement over the last TL'.

Some things will always be TL0 -- rock (including unrefined ore), naked humans, wild animals, wild plants, etc. Biological needs of people will not change much as TL advances; every kg of living human will require X food, Y water, Z air. Maybe Vargr are similar; Aslan, K'Kree, and Droyn a bit different; Hivers radically different. Get that stuff nailed down, too.

As long as we are defining the biological needs of the different species, consider their different cultures, perspectives, priorities, and aptitudes as well. Aslan are great hunters; so maybe we can expect their agricultural (even ranching) technologies to lag and such facilities to under-produce. So Aslan agriculture makes (at similar TLs) the same products, but at greater cost compared to other races; this creates an opportunity for trade with non-Aslan. Male Aslan value hunting-land; maybe their basic unit of currency is not 'One koku is enough rice to feed a person for a year' -- it is 'this plot of land is large enough to support a single hunter'; and that colors everything in their outlook. It changes how they view transactions, how they evaluate worlds, where they seek to expand, etc.

Traveller is very human-centric; but in order to have humans be something other than boring Mary-Sues we can declare humaniti is consistently 2nd (or maybe 3rd) best at basically every category of technology. That does make us valuable trade partners for basically every other race -- but quite a lot of the human perspective is in terms of trade, commerce, and Credits, so maybe that fits.

Start with the fundamentals, and build up from there; and you can end up with sensible long-range trade flows, trade-goods, conflicts between empires, and so on.
 
Back
Top