Question on Sensor effectiveness

[Sigtrygg]

I use development within the same TL, I do not like the Mongoose and T5 experiemental and prototype TL stage effects. I view TLs as scientific, engineering, technological and in some ways cultural paradigms. As soon as you make the discoveries that light the way to the new paradigm then you have achieved that TL, but it is possible to achieve TL breakthroughs in different disciplines.

When building stuff, eg a TL7 air superiority jet fighter

--- exp means experimantal

--- pto means prototype

--- imp means improved

--- adv means advanced

--- ult means ultimate

current TL rule	My version	eexample aircraft	example MBT
-2	exp 7pto	P80	T44
-1	ear 7	F100	Centurion
0	7	F4	Chieftain
+1	imp 7	F15	M1A2
+2	adv 7	F22	Merkava IV
+3	ult 7	F47	NGCV -DLP

 

[MarcusIII]

However, does that go the other way? Would a TL12 ship get a DM -3 to detect a TL15 ship?

No. Example: The TL 15 ship is thrusting at 3. The TL 12 sensors (IR in this case most likely) have no disadvantage as the TL doesn't diminish the energy output of the TL 15 drive for reasons of physics. Also a TL 15 hull that isn't designed with stealth is going to be as visible as a TL 12. hull, etc.

 

[Saladman]

I recently released a TL10 ship. One of the readers over on Reddit was commenting that it would be at a severe disadvantage against higher tech vessels.
...
This shows a BONUS for the higher tech ship. Using the example, a TL15 ship gets a DM +3 to detect a TL12 ship.

Tech level difference adding plusses is really the original sin of 2e ship building. I can see what the author was going for: "of course there'd be an advantage; I'll just throw it on abstractly instead of coming up with more high tech components like heat sinks and new sensor types." But it's poor game design to model everything with stackable plusses in a 2d6 system. And practically, it just encourages everyone to game the system to hit the "more plusses" button when designing ships.

I hope if there's ever a new full edition or a full rewrite of High Guard it gets removed. And in general, it'd be even better to see Mongoose authors and editorial control focus on ship, vehicle and personal gear that literally does something ability-wise instead of all being about plusses and minuses. We have more than enough plusses for a 2d6 system already, we don't need still more.

 

[Endie]

I vary from most folks here in that I do think that a negative modifier is implied for the TL12 ship trying to detect the TL15 ship. I have two main reasons for thinking this, one positive and one negative, so to speak.

On the positive side, I think that a 3G manuevre drive built at a TL15 shipyard is better than one built at a TL12 shipyard, for instance. The price is the same despite the basic technology having been understood for centuries, so if the difference is not in price, then it must be elsewhere. For me, improved elements such as materials tech make sense, so the TL15 ship thrusting at 3G starts from a lower baseline of observability.

On the negative side, the people saying that the lower chance of observability are dealt with by adding stealth tech are ignoring that the converse would then be true: the better ability to detect is covered in better (and more expensive) sensor tech: fitting Advanced sensors in the TL15 ship instead of Improved sensors in the TL12 ship.

In the second case, again, I think that improvements in materials tech and in software analysis are why a TL15 ship with a TL15 Improved Sensors suite is at +3 to detect a TL12 ship. The TL15 sensor suite costs the same as the TL12 version: but hundreds of years of research yielded great improvements in detecting legacy targets.

 

[hopsnbaer]

I vary from most folks here in that I do think that a negative modifier is implied for the TL12 ship trying to detect the TL15 ship. I have two main reasons for thinking this, one positive and one negative, so to speak.

On the positive side, I think that a 3G manuevre drive built at a TL15 shipyard is better than one built at a TL12 shipyard, for instance. The price is the same despite the basic technology having been understood for centuries, so if the difference is not in price, then it must be elsewhere. For me, improved elements such as materials tech make sense, so the TL15 ship thrusting at 3G starts from a lower baseline of observability.

On the negative side, the people saying that the lower chance of observability are dealt with by adding stealth tech are ignoring that the converse would then be true: the better ability to detect is covered in better (and more expensive) sensor tech: fitting Advanced sensors in the TL15 ship instead of Improved sensors in the TL12 ship.

In the second case, again, I think that improvements in materials tech and in software analysis are why a TL15 ship with a TL15 Improved Sensors suite is at +3 to detect a TL12 ship. The TL15 sensor suite costs the same as the TL12 version: but hundreds of years of research yielded great improvements in detecting legacy targets.

I don't think you are out of line, but Stealth is specifically stated to be affected by the TL Difference of the ships. Regular Detection starting on page 76, doesn't.

 

[Condottiere]

Effectiveness usually represented by increased use of resources, normally money.

I would have used technological level of the shipyard as capping effectiveness level.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I vary from most folks here in that I do think that a negative modifier is implied for the TL12 ship trying to detect the TL15 ship. I have two main reasons for thinking this, one positive and one negative, so to speak.

On the positive side, I think that a 3G manuevre drive built at a TL15 shipyard is better than one built at a TL12 shipyard, for instance. The price is the same despite the basic technology having been understood for centuries, so if the difference is not in price, then it must be elsewhere. For me, improved elements such as materials tech make sense, so the TL15 ship thrusting at 3G starts from a lower baseline of observability.

On the negative side, the people saying that the lower chance of observability are dealt with by adding stealth tech are ignoring that the converse would then be true: the better ability to detect is covered in better (and more expensive) sensor tech: fitting Advanced sensors in the TL15 ship instead of Improved sensors in the TL12 ship.

In the second case, again, I think that improvements in materials tech and in software analysis are why a TL15 ship with a TL15 Improved Sensors suite is at +3 to detect a TL12 ship. The TL15 sensor suite costs the same as the TL12 version: but hundreds of years of research yielded great improvements in detecting legacy targets.

I agree with you, I think the TL diffeence should affect both.

A TL12 basic sensor tracking a TL14 ship should be at -2, while the TL14 is at +2 if it has basic TL14 sensors to track the TL12.