Question on non-military ships weaponry

[cbrunish]

I remember reading that certain weapons can not be put on non-military ships. I know that Spinal Mounts can not be put on a non-military ship. But what about bays and barbetts?

And would the ship that created for a noble be considered a non-military ship or would they get preferential treatment and use military weaponry?

 

[Sylvre Phire]

I remember reading that certain weapons can not be put on non-military ships. I know that Spinal Mounts can not be put on a non-military ship. But what about bays and barbetts?

And would the ship that created for a noble be considered a non-military ship or would they get preferential treatment and use military weaponry?

I would say barbettes and bays would be too heavy for legal civilian use. With regard to a noble's ship, I would judge it by the role of the vessel. Take a look at the vehicles the President of the US rides in. We're talking bullet proof glass, armor, run-flat tires, etc. Air Force One and Marine One are also good examples to take a look at.

A pleasure craft belonging to a savvy noble would have extensive security systems as well as some armor and more powerful weapons (particle accelerators, sandcasters) and protective screens. An official ship, such as one used to ferry the noble to and from the Moot or other official gatherings, would have more military leanings in its defenses. If the family has a long-standing connection with the military, such as Norris' family, then their personal flagship might very well be a military vessel, such as a frontier or colonial cruiser, based on their noble rank.

I hope that gives some kind of perspective and idea.

Pax et bonum,

Dale

 

[rust]

Some of the more powerful nobles of the Third Imperium have their own
military forces, named "Housecarls" if I remember it right. While most
of those seem to be ground forces, I think there will also be warships,
if only to transport the ground forces, and so nobles most probably can
own true warships.

 

[locarno24]

The president's bodyguards also have exemptions for some serious automatic weaponry - i.e. military equivalent stuff.

However

There is a distinct attempt to make everything discreet, and you'll note that Airforce One and Marine One may be armoured up and equipped with (one assumes) every ECM system under the sun, but it's not armed with air-to-air weapons - partly because that would make it a valid target.

Instead, it flys with an escort of military fighters - for a "politician" ship I'd assume something similar in most cases; a heavy screened and armoured ship with a whacking huge M-Drive, protected by a formation of Navy or Patrol close escort vessels.

The main ship would be armed, but mostly defensively (lasers, sandcasters) as it's main role is not to fight the enemy, but to keep the guy in stateroom 1 alive whilst it runs like hell for the 100-D limit or for atmosphere.



In the case of someone who's ex-military, or at least has military leanings, and intends to lead from the front, then an ex- or even current-service ship is quite possible - after all, who do you think the local navies answer to?


As to generic others....I'd suggest it's much like law level on a planet - if you're within the patrolled region of a system then their rules apply unless they contradict Imperial law (and sometimes not even then as you get to the raggedy edge of civilization). Defensive armaments (lasers & sandcasters) are probably universally acceptible. Something like a triple particle turret is probably legal outside a few restrictive worlds with very good police fleets, but will raise eyebrows in most civilized places - it's like buying a drum-fed 12-guage rather than a handgun for 'home defence'.



Barbettes probably fall into the same category - they're essentially 'heavy turrets', and their only realistic use is putting holes in someone else's ship. It would probably require a license or a notification of someone that you're packing one, but for a merchant moving regularly through a region where pirate attack is feasible, or if you're a licensed bounty hunter/merc then I suspect no-one would complain.

Bay and (especially) Heavy Bay weapons are unarguably military, I suggest, so unless you've got a very good reason, or are in a region where no-one cares, you'll have dificulty obtaining them. Of course, once you've got a ship armed with them, you are in a position to rather emphatically overrule anyone who wants to object....

Note that one thing that isn't included in the current rules is a heavyweight equivalent to the pop-up turret. There's no reason that a 'slide-out' bay weapon couldn't be created using the same sort of tonnage and cost multipliers: since it's not a standard design it'd cost you a pretty penny, but it would certainly help the...less popular?...nobles maintain their personal security.

 

[rinku]

Of course, a bay without any weaponry installed is just an innocent 50 or 100 dTon modular cargo bay, officer...

 

[locarno24]

With an awful lot of power sockets for a cargo bay, but still.....

Yes, if you have some spacegoing equivalent of an "ISO container ship" then it's easy to pack them up with ordnance, and consider them disguised missile/torpedo bays or heavy bays, or whatever.

Modern Example:

http://defensetech.org/2010/04/27/c...e-featured-in-slick-marketing-video/#comments

 

[CosmicGamer]

Not knowing the lore of old and there not being a Nobles book out yet for Mongoose; not knowing if you are referencing nobles that make up the peerage or nobles from the orders of knighthood; not knowing if you are referencing hereditary nobles or not; not knowing if you are referencing Honor Nobles, Rank Nobles or High Nobles; to me, a yacht would generally fall under the civilian category. IMO Nobles with little power would not be allowed the weapons and nobles with power would have military escort available (there may be a parade when some nobles arrive somewhere) or have navies under their command.

If you want nobles to have such weaponry IYTU then simply allow them to have a "military" ship.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

What weapons are considered civilian or military is a setting decision, not a rules decision.

IMTU, civilian ships can only mount lasers (beam or pulse) and sand. Missiles are considered para-military.

Popup, Barbettes and Bays are military as are nuclear missiles, Fusion and Meson guns.

I have played in settings were civilian ships were all unarmed, only sand was allowed.

Other games will allow just about anything you can buy. Depends on the setting.

PERSONALLY, in a 3I setting, I would allow civilian ships to carry lasers, sand and (non-nuclear) missiles. Pop Up turrets and Barbettes are not allowed on civilian ships, nor are bay weapons.

The old Azhanti High Lightning game for CT had this former military ship converted to civilian use and all of the bay weapons were removed and the space converted to cargo.

 

[phavoc]

Genreally speaking I think you won't see the heavier weapons like bays or barbettes installed on non-military ships simply because of cost. Heavy weapons aren't cheap to buy in the first place, they required beefed-up power plants and are expensive to maintain.

So, in economic theory at least, you don't see them on non-military ships because it doesn't make sense. You could see them installed on ships that are quasi-military, like military megacorp ships, perhaps licensed privateers who's secondary job is naval reserve, and the like.

But heavy weapons aren't any good for piracy because they have a tendency to blow up the thing you want to steal. They aren't really good for "intimidation" because if you intimidate the wrong person/ship, you'll find someone even more intimidating on your trail that also happens to be a real naval combat vessel.

I suppose there wouldn't necessarily be any reason why they can't physically be installed, and if they are I'm sure planetary authorities are going to take a very dim view of heavily armed merchant ships in orbit. It's kinda hard to hide that sort of thing from your customs inspector.

 

[rust]

What weapons are considered civilian or military is a setting decision, not a rules decision.

Yep. In my settings merchant ships are almost never armed, simply be-
cause many planetary governments would never allow a ship with wea-
pons powerful enough to damage a habitat dome anywhere near their
worlds. Some few subsidized merchants on fixed trade routes are light-
ly armed, but free traders who intend to visit "foreign" worlds do not in-
stall weapons on their ships.

 

[AndrewW]

The old Azhanti High Lightning game for CT had this former military ship converted to civilian use and all of the bay weapons were removed and the space converted to cargo.

But not all:

Commercial Service: Of the eight ships purchased at surplus and placed in commercial service, the most interesting is the Emissary (ex-Sparkling Distress) operated by Oberlindes Lines in the Vargr Extents. Taking advantage of a bureaucratic loophole, the ship never shed its weaponry, and was operated from a base just beyond the Imperial border, at Pandrin/Uthe. The weaponry projects the proper attitude of power to the Vargr , and while never actually used, it has made the Oberlindes commercial expeditions highly successful.

 

[cbrunish]

I created a Type AY Armoured Yacht at tech level 12. The ship has Jump 3, 3G Thrust with an Armour value of 8. The ship carries 2 PA Barbettes and 8 triple beam turrets (both have High Yield and Accurate). For defense besides the Armour it has a Nuclear Damper. It can carry 19 passengers besides the Owner. It also carries 11 Security personal (Lieutenant, Sergeant, 2 Corporels, and 8 Privates). It is intended for Marquis thru Duke. I would be too expensive for a Baron or Knight to own (over 500 mcr). I also plan on writing up a variant for the Type Y Yacht that is armed. I guess Type Y2 Armed Yacht.

This for Nobles to have besides those that are in the "Noble" service. By the way, thanks for all the input!!!

 

[locarno24]

That's......rather well armed for a yacht.
Especially if you're planning on an 'armed' version!

 

[Fedmahn Kassad]

IMTU, civilian's do not (leagally) have access to Plasma, Fusion, barbettes, Bays or Spinal Mounts.

Lasers, Sand and Missile are the weapons that civilians can mount. Also IMTU, the posession of nuclear missiles is a Imperium level capital offence, due to the lingering effects of radiation, not because of destructive capability.

Using any weapon with a persistant after-effect (nuclear, chemical or biological) is considered the most henious of crimes and will have the Imperium declare the user a "most wanted"...