Question about: Evade in combat

[Khamulcalle]

Can I use Evade instead of a shield in close combat?

e.g The troll is trying to hit me with his club (Huge) and I only have my
small sword to defend myself. Can I use Evade as a defensive action
cause I know my sword will not help me at all?

//Khamul

 

[Dan True]

Can I use Evade instead of a shield in close combat?

e.g The troll is trying to hit me with his club (Huge) and I only have my
small sword to defend myself. Can I use Evade as a defensive action
cause I know my sword will not help me at all?

//Khamul

Yep, but you cannot attack on your next action because you jump out of the way (see Evade action).
But yeah, it's still better than getting smashed.

- Dan

 

[Isengrim]

As far as I can see from the rules it is perfectly possible to use the Evade skill as a defense, with the restriction that you cannot use your next CA to attack.

It is not entirely clear if they mean a close combat attack, but that seems to be the most likely.

In any case; if you have a short sword versus an 2H Club you will probably need to use your next CA to change the range if you want to attack.

Additionally there are a few combat maneuvers available that can be used if you achieve a greater degree of success than your attacker, just like with parry. Even removing the ones obviously requiring you to have a weapon or shield you have: Blind Opponent, Change Range, Overextend Opponent, Redirect Blow, Regain Footing, Stand Fast, Trip Opponent; all of which looks like they could be used with an Evade-action.

Edited to add: What looks like the major drawback of using the Evade skill to defend is that this turns it into an opposed test with your attackers attack roll. This is different than parry, where all you have to do is to make your own roll. Ref. page 90 - main rulebook.

 

[Khamulcalle]

Thanks for the quick reply

A new question:

Do you only roll against the weapons AP/HP when using the combat manuever: Damage weapon?

 

[PhilHibbs]

What looks like the major drawback of using the Evade skill to defend is that this turns it into an opposed test with your attackers attack roll. This is different than parry, where all you have to do is to make your own roll. Ref. page 90 - main rulebook.

Interesting point - a non-combat character who uses Evade has the advantage that they can still cast a spell with their next action, but the disadvantage that they have to get a better Success number on their Evade. But even if they are beaten by the attacker's Success dice roll, they at least stopped them getting a CM.

 

[Isengrim]

Do you only roll against the weapons AP/HP when using the combat manuever: Damage weapon?

I am not entirely certain what you mean with this, but the procedure seems to be that with a successful attack (with at least one extra level of success) you can choose to damage your opponents weapon or shield.

I.e. attacker rolls damage, subtracts the AP of the opposing weapon/shield, and the rest is subtracted from the HP of the opposing weapon/shield.

This is probably one of these things that is very useful for critical hits with large weapons against equally large weapons.

This is because a critical hit can be parried with a simple normal success, but that leaves an extra combat maneuver to use. Completely shattering even a great weapon is possible with a single attack, especially with a few levels of magical enhancement.

 

[Khamulcalle]

If it works like that you could very well destroy a weapon in 2-3 strikes, right? Gonna be tough to get new swords all the time....

Very leathal!

 

[daxos232]

That thing PhillHibbs mentioned about how an Evade against an attack is considered an opposed roll, and therefore does not grant CMs to the winner, I did not know that.

Where can I find it in the core rulebook? I've been looking but I'm missing it.

 

[PhilHibbs]

That thing PhillHibbs mentioned about how an Evade against an attack is considered an opposed roll, and therefore does not grant CMs to the winner, I did not know that.

Where can I find it in the core rulebook? I've been looking but I'm missing it.

Evade is no different in this respect, a successful evade vs successful attack does not grant and CMs to either, in the same way that a successful parry vs successful attack does not. Critical evade vs normal attack or vice versa awards 1 CM to the winner. My point was that by evading, at least you deny them a CM even if you don't block any damage.

Hm, actually, re-reading the rules, it isn't clear that you can evade a normal attack - it says under the Evade action that you can use it against missiles or a charge, and then goes on to say that "This action can also be declared in advance of an anticipated attack (see Parry)." But that does not necessarily mean that it can be used just like a parry to avoid a normal close combat attack. So maybe the answer to the OP is "no". If you won initiative, you can pre-empt their attacks with an Outmanouevre action if you think you have a good chance of beating them in an opposed evade contest. I haven't given the players the Outmanoeuvre option in my game though, as I can't really visualise what it means. Forcing the opponent to use all their CAs on purely non-offensive actions while you can still hit them? Doesn't really make sense to me. I should talk it through with them and we could try it out in the next fight.

 

[daxos232]

I was somewhat confused with the wording from your 2nd to last post. Though now with the book in front of me it is cleared up.

Looking on page 91 it does say that a close combat attack can be avoided with Evade.

 

[PhilHibbs]

I was somewhat confused with the wording from your 2nd to last post. Though now with the book in front of me it is cleared up.

Looking on page 91 it does say that a close combat attack can be avoided with Evade.

Ah yes I see, but you need space to physically move yourself, you can't use Evade to just duck under a swing. Maybe a Heroic Ability could enable the use of Evade without jinking around so dramatically.

Dodgy Character (needs a better name)
Requirements: DEX 15 or higher, any close combat weapon style or Evade at 90% or higher
Hero Points: 10 (seems average, not sure how to judge the costs)
Duration: One melee round

You may Evade without giving ground or foregoing your next attack.

 

[simonh]

Dodgy Character (needs a better name)

Slippery Jim

Simon Hibbs

 

[Khamulcalle]

Dodgy Character (needs a better name)

Could call it: Devin Hester

 

[PhilHibbs]

Could call it: Devin Hester

That would be some kind of heroic catch-and-kick ability, surely?

 

[Deleriad]

Races of Glorantha has an improved evade as a "duck knack." I called it Duck & Cover and gave it to an NPC in Pavis Rises. Sometimes it's good to be a GM.

 

[Isengrim]

It makes sense that the Evade needs space. You are in effect moving away from your attacker to make him miss you.

A good use of the Evade skill is the outmaneuvre action, which can be used against multiple opponents. You may not get to attack, but at least you can keep out of trouble.

 

[glutgrim]

Only been actively playing RQ2 for a short while, but I admit I have never understood the rationale behind making Evade so much different than Dodge was in the old RQ from Avalon Hill.

If you Evade, you don't change combat distance, but you are supposed to be throwing yourself out of the way so dramatically that you can't attack on your next action. For me, this doesn't quite jive. (I could understand losing your next attack if you also were totally disengaging from the enemy.)

Also, how can one create a character who relies on quickness instead of parrying? Or consider a boxer backed into a corner. I've seen men make their opponents miss repeatedly by using a simple bob-and-weave, or by slipping punches (both of which are more easily rationalized as the old Dodge rather than the new Evade).

Is there some reasoning behind Evade that I am missing? Why no more Dodge?

And on a side note--what if Evade were replaced with Dodge? Would it somehow create imbalances in combat? Would everyone try to Dodge? Or is it because Dodge isn't coupled with a Combat Style? (But if so, couldn't you have a combat style "Short Sword and Dodge"?)

Cheers!

 

[PhilHibbs]

And on a side note--what if Evade were replaced with Dodge? Would it somehow create imbalances in combat? Would everyone try to Dodge? Or is it because Dodge isn't coupled with a Combat Style? (But if so, couldn't you have a combat style "Short Sword and Dodge"?)

I think the reasoning is "dodge is better in every way than parry, so why would anyone parry", so the solution was to give Dodge (renamed to Evade) a price. You can "outmanoeuvre", which pre-empts all attacks by one or more opponents for the remainder of the round, if you think you can pull off the opposed Evade test. Not bad for a single action. I've not introduced this in my game yet 'cos I don't really get how to visualise it. It seems like a Heroic Ability to me.

 

[glutgrim]

I thought it might be something like that. Thank you. I used Evade in-game with a player who fought multiple opponents. Included the optional fatigue rule, and let the character attack on his next action (couldn't attack on the round he used Evade). It worked well, and the fatigue definitely imposed a limit on how long he could do it.