Query: Weapons!

[SnowShadow]

an idea for using 2 weapons:

-4CS but double the damage you inflict (or x1.5)

so you risk taken more damage but you will inflict even more

I like it. The problem is, as with many 2-weapon ideas, what happens (like BK28) when you have two +5CS weapons, the -4CS is no disadvantage at all when overcompensated by the +5CS, not including any Grand Weaponmastery bonus your second weapon may give. It would work if you were doing an RPG where the heroes had limited powerful weapons, treasuring even a humble +1CS Durenese Sword. By the time they were Grand Masters though they would be expecting more powerful stuff; why would anyone use a +5CS Broadsword with +5CS Grand Weaponmastery (+10CS altogether) when you could use two +5CS each Swords dual wielded with Grand Weaponmastery +5CS for each? If you include the -4CS for dual wielding it still gives a +16CS bonus, 6 better than the Broadsword, AND you get the double/1.5 damage bonus. 'Every' Warrior would dual wield and 'no-one' would want a Shield or Two Handed Weapon. Mind you, a Sun Knight can use a Broadsword one handed so perhaps you could argue they could dual wield that.

I'll stick with:

All weapons used normally may be used with a Shield.

One Handed Weapons may be Dual-wielded if you have one in each hand, allowing a reroll with second weapon's CR calculated seperately. The rerolled result must be abided by even if it is worse. The Off Hand Weapon used for the reroll must not have a better CR and you cannot claim a Shield bonus. Against foes immune to normal weapons, e.g. Helghast, the Off Hand Weapon must also be magical. This works better if both weapons give a similar CR. If you are armed with a really good weapon you would tend to favour a shield instead - you are unlikely to reroll a Sommerswerd +8CS result with a Rusty Sword -1CS in your off hand as the Combat Ratio is 9 points worse! (Chaos Master/Ironheart Broadsword).

Two Handed Weapons may be used to 'Keep Foes at Bay'; +2CS due to reach advantage though neither side able to deliver critical blows - all '1' and '0' results have no effect (E-0EP, Self-0EP, Awe attempt fails) very useful on -9CR or worse. Wanted a rule that would emphasize the defensive nature of most 2 handed weapons - staves and spears especially. Combat can be longer(with 0/1 no effect) this way, allowing time for reinforcements to turn up, which make sense for a defensive fighting style. Shield bonus can still be claimed. Imagine castle/town guards would use this style.

 

[SnowShadow]

b) Just give a +1 CS bonus (so it's better than using a single 1-handed weapon on its own, but not as effective as a shield-and-weapon combo, which is true; sword-and-board needs to be encouraged, imo).Colin

Does this apply to ALL dual wielded weapons? Kai Grand Master 'A' has their Kai Weapon (Sword) +5CS and a Dagger +0CS, 'A' has Grand Weaponmastery in Sword and Bow so the Dagger only provides +1CS benefit. Fair enough. However, (in the same situation) Kai Grand Master 'B' with their Kai Weapon (Sword) +5CS but with Andarin Warhammer +5CS and Grand Weaponmastery in Sword AND Warhammer (+5CS each) 'only' get +1CS bonus for the Warhammer - the Weapon's +5CS and their second Grand Weaponmastery Slot/Warhammer are ignored. Doesn't seem fair. Would a Warrior go to all the trouble of seeking out aother really powerful weapon or one they have exceptional skill with if they can just pick up a 2GC Dagger second weapon that gives the same +1CS bonus? In actual fact looking at the LWMPG on page 30 a Dagger is 2GC (so two = 4GC) and provide +1CS (dual wielded) whereas a Sword is 10GC; that's 6GC more expensive AND provides no CS bonus! Only the most stupid warrior would buy a Sword, everyone else would be walking around with their dual wieldable daggers: Which of course isn't the case, going by the Weaponskill table the Sword is most popular with twice as many Kai learning this Weapon compared individually to each other melee weapon.

 

[SnowShadow]

Dual Wielding shouldn't really benefit the average person with the average weapon. However a really talented warrior or one armed with two powerful weapons should get the bonus they deserve:

How about +1CS for every +2CS or part thereof of the off hand weapon's total bonus? Off Hand Weapon is the one with the 'worst' total bonus. If the Offhand Weapon is incapable of affecting the foe, calculate the damage to yourself including the Offhand CS bonus and the Damage to the enemy WITHOUT the Offhand bonus; only pick one Random Number but compare it to each Combat Ratio depending on the combatant *.

E.g. Peasant with two Daggers = +0CS
Thief with two +1CS Daggers = +2CS (+1CS Primary Hand, +1CS Off Hand).
Kai Lord Weaponskill +2CS (Dagger) with two Daggers = +3CS (Primary Hand +2CS & Offhand +1CS).
Kai Master with Weaponmastery +3CS (Sword) and two Durenese Swords +1CS ea = +6CS (Primary Hand +4 CS {+3CS & +1CS} Off Hand +2 CS {+3CS & +1CS = +4CS = +2CS Offhand}).
Grand Master with Grand Weaponmastery (Sword) and Sommerswerd +8CS & Helshezag +5CS = +18CS. (Primary Hand +13CS {+8CS Sommerswerd & +5CS Grand Weaponmastery} Off Hand +5CS {+5CS Helshezag & +5 CS Grand Weaponmastery = +10CS = +5CS Offhand}).

*E.g. Helghast CS22 vs Kai Lord CS 19 with Weaponskill/Dagger, Kai Master Dagger +1CS & Magic Dagger: The Magic Dagger becomes the Primary Weapon because the Kai Master Dagger +1CS cannot harm the Helghast and is therefore considered worse:
Combat Ratio -1 to determine damage done to the Helghast (Dagger+1CS ignored so only Magic Dagger +0CS and Weaponskill +2CS bonus for Kai).
Combat Ratio +1 to determine damage done to the Kai (Off Hand +1CS Dagger & + 2CS Weaponskill = +3CS = +2CS Offhand bonus).
So if the Random Number picked is 7: -8EP Helghast (-1 CR), -1 EP Kai (+1 CR). Dual Wielding saves the Kai 1EP.

Shields will still be popular, especially with less able warriors and Dual Wielding Grand Masters enjoying Grand Weaponmastery bonuses are better off without. They don't have the option of using shields in books 13+ anyway - too interfering with GM Disciplines like armour for wizards in other rpg's.

To compensate the using Two Handed Weapons to Keep at Bay doubles your Weaponskill bonus, all 1 & 0 still no effect.

 

[Methos]

good point
i would say, Weaponmastery can only be used once (even when you have 2 weapons in hand)

so
kai with two +5 CS weapons and weaponmastery +5 CS will get a total bonus of +11 (2x5 for the weapons +5 for weaponmastery and -4 for two weapons)

to make weaponmastry more powerful we could say that only kai with weaponmastery are allowed to use 2 weapons simult.

 

[SnowShadow]

(Edited previous post to include Helghast/ dual wield normal & magic weapon ideas)