Psychic Crew ability vs Vree Telepathy

[David Anla Shok']

Shadows are telepathic. However, they don't crew their ships with Shadows, just modified people from the younger races. Once they realised their equipment's susceptibility to psychic disruption, they started using teeps as crew/pilots to counteract any telepathic disruption.

Eh. There was nothing to suggest this. I'd say, from contextual referances that the ships needed a telepath to even function and perhaps that is what made them susceptable to interferance. From what I saw onscreen, I would hazard a guess and say that the Shadows were telepathic much in the way of the Vree. What the Eye of the Shadows would have been is also conjectural. Perhaps a select few Shadows with above average teep ability? What fun. I need to drink and think on this some more.

 

[lastbesthope]

Shadows are telepathic. However, they don't crew their ships with Shadows, just modified people from the younger races. Once they realised their equipment's susceptibility to psychic disruption, they started using teeps as crew/pilots to counteract any telepathic disruption.

Eh. There was nothing to suggest this. I'd say, from contextual referances that the ships needed a telepath to even function

I don't think Shadow vessels need telepathic CPUs to function, Anna Sheridan got put in one and there was no mention of her being a telepath.

LBH

 

[David Anla Shok']

Shadows are telepathic. However, they don't crew their ships with Shadows, just modified people from the younger races. Once they realised their equipment's susceptibility to psychic disruption, they started using teeps as crew/pilots to counteract any telepathic disruption.

Eh. There was nothing to suggest this. I'd say, from contextual referances that the ships needed a telepath to even function

I don't think Shadow vessels need telepathic CPUs to function, Anna Sheridan got put in one and there was no mention of her being a telepath.

LBH

Perhaps she was a latent telepath ;>

 

[Da Boss]

contextual referances - which were they? Don't recall?

I thought the whole point of Ship of Tears was that the Shadows were having to get teeps to deal with the problems of telepathic jamming by Lyta and the Minbari?

I agree it is a symbiotic realtionship but not sure it requires either party to be telepathic - more a merging of entities?

 

[Triggy]

contextual referances - which were they? Don't recall?

I thought the whole point of Ship of Tears was that the Shadows were having to get teeps to deal with the problems of telepathic jamming by Lyta and the Minbari?

I agree it is a symbiotic realtionship but not sure it requires either party to be telepathic - more a merging of entities?

Indeed, this is the whole point of the second half of the season three plot - Shadows are just starting to use telepaths in their ships because for the first time in a long time somebody else has worked out that you can jam their ships with teeps. Shadows do not need teeps to run their ships but they do help block enemy telepaths.

 

[lastbesthope]

I think it's just the first of the younger races have worked it out. I always got the impression the Vorlons knew, and that's why they engineered telepathy in some cases, and adjusted specific people, like Lyta.

LBH

 

[Da Boss]

If it was not for those meddling Vorlons we would have gotten away with it too

 

[David Anla Shok']

contextual referances - which were they? Don't recall?

I thought the whole point of Ship of Tears was that the Shadows were having to get teeps to deal with the problems of telepathic jamming by Lyta and the Minbari?

I agree it is a symbiotic realtionship but not sure it requires either party to be telepathic - more a merging of entities?

Can't recollect the episode name just now, but it is with the IPX gal who uncovered the shadow ship on Mars. Garibaldi finds a Psi Corps pin where the ship had been.
If putting teeps in Shadow ships was supposed to help against jamming it sure didn't work well. This is all conjecture at the moment. I suppose that I could go back and do the Ritual Reviewing of Episodes to look for even more obscure clues.

 

[Shadow Queen]

what was the 2nd season ep where Talia made the shadows de phase around Morden when she walked past?

So if they were Telepathic they could resist it.

the mindriders taught the Vorlons Telephay but the shadows didnt want to know.....

 

[David Anla Shok']

what was the 2nd season ep where Talia made the shadows de phase around Morden when she walked past?

So if they were Telepathic they could resist it.

the mindriders taught the Vorlons Telephay but the shadows didnt want to know.....

I don't think tha they "dephased". Neither she nor the security people saw them. It looked more like a plot device showing that she sensed something "bad" and it affected her. Would have looked kind of silly if she reacted to Morden walking by... unless of course he was extraordinarily funky from being locked up all those hours.

 

[Da Boss]

contextual referances - which were they? Don't recall?

I thought the whole point of Ship of Tears was that the Shadows were having to get teeps to deal with the problems of telepathic jamming by Lyta and the Minbari?

I agree it is a symbiotic realtionship but not sure it requires either party to be telepathic - more a merging of entities?

Can't recollect the episode name just now, but it is with the IPX gal who uncovered the shadow ship on Mars. Garibaldi finds a Psi Corps pin where the ship had been.
If putting teeps in Shadow ships was supposed to help against jamming it sure didn't work well. This is all conjecture at the moment. I suppose that I could go back and do the Ritual Reviewing of Episodes to look for even more obscure clues.

Your sort of missing the point I think, it's because they were getting jammed that they starting working on putting telepaths in them to then block them.

 

[Alexb83]

But there was no evidence that it ever worked - their ships still get jammed, die and/or run away when they detect telepaths.

And afterall the teeps in ship of tears were 'rescued' and taken back to B5.

Simple thing to do would be to give Vorlon ships the telepathic crew trait, and give everyone else an option on the upgrade table (except for Narn).

 

[Da Boss]

hmm though IIRC the Vorlons don't seem to bother with jamming - just chop them up with beams?

of course they only meet in battle twice? Once is a Ambush and the other is a massive battle ..........

Don't most races have it in their other duties anyway?

re Shadows having telepaths in their ships - I thought Sheridan / Bester stoped them getting them so never got a chance to try them?

 

[lastbesthope]

Can't recollect the episode name just now, but it is with the IPX gal who uncovered the shadow ship on Mars. Garibaldi finds a Psi Corps pin where the ship had been.
If putting teeps in Shadow ships was supposed to help against jamming it sure didn't work well. This is all conjecture at the moment. I suppose that I could go back and do the Ritual Reviewing of Episodes to look for even more obscure clues.

The events of which are firther expanded in one of the B5 comics, I always fgot the impression that the Corps were sending a teep in to try and contact the ship as they'd detected that it was a live from bio readings.

LBH

 

[David Anla Shok']

Your sort of missing the point I think, it's because they were getting jammed that they starting working on putting telepaths in them to then block them.[/quote]

No. You missed the point that the episode where Shadow ships were uncovered (with Dr.Kirkish), Psi Corps teeps were integrated with them. This occured long before Sheridan "discovered" that teeps could interfere with the Shadow ships. Thus, teeps going into Shadow ships is not cause and effect.

 

[Triggy]

It wasn't a teep they tried to integrate though, just a mundane. Why would the Psi Corps risk any of their own when they could risk mundanes first? The Psi Corps were running the show there though.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

IIRC, that was the same incident that's covered briefly in book 2 of the Psi Corps trilogy. The Psi Corps just had a teep try to scan the ship seeing as it looked organic, and he went insane when he touched it. After that I'm guessing that they realised that mundanes did have a purpose in life after all

 

[Da Boss]

Your sort of missing the point I think, it's because they were getting jammed that they starting working on putting telepaths in them to then block them.

No. You missed the point that the episode where Shadow ships were uncovered (with Dr.Kirkish), Psi Corps teeps were integrated with them. This occured long before Sheridan "discovered" that teeps could interfere with the Shadow ships. Thus, teeps going into Shadow ships is not cause and effect. [/quote]

no mention of Psi corps putting telepaths in them before.........again thats the point of the ship of tears episodes is it not ! :?

 

[Greg Smith]

There is nothing in any episode or novel that indicates a telepaths were integrated into Shadow ships.

On Mars, in Messages from Earth, Mary Kirkish only sees unmarked shuttles arrive. Garibaldi found a single Psi Corps pin. The buried ship is taken away and there is is nothing to indicate there was anyone integrated.

With regards to the ship on Ganymede, Delenn says Shadow ships need 'a sentient being', and anyone not prepared would result in the ship going murderously insane. We hear a transmission, 'Subject is approaching target.' No mention of a telepath.

--
Further information is gleaned from the novels, The Shadow Within and Bester Ascendant. In the Psi Corps novel, it says the ship on Mars is in the possession of Psi Corps, but it is deliberately unclear who else knows about it. A teep touches it and goes mad.

In The Shadow Within, the ship is investigated by EarthForce New Technologies, include an archeo-linguist named Mordern. No mention of teeps or anyone being integrated as a pilot.

We also know from the comic Shadows Past & Present that the Psi Corps is in league with the Shadows prior to the ship being found.

----
The only time we see that the Shadows intend to use teeps to pilot their ships is in Ship of Tears.

Whether they have some teeps as pilots is unknown, but every time we see a teep try to jam a ship, they apparently succeed.

 

[David Anla Shok']

It wasn't a teep they tried to integrate though, just a mundane. Why would the Psi Corps risk any of their own when they could risk mundanes first? The Psi Corps were running the show there though.

There is no empirical evidence for either in that episode. All we have to go on is the half fried Psi Corps badge.