Proposal: The White Star - The Knife Fight Variant

[Rawwar]

As I see it the problem with White Stars is they have the speed and manoeuvrability to get on a opponents weak flank then the range to hit without most enemies having the ability to retaliate. This is too much and very frustrating for most fleets.

If I was going to shorten anything to 8” it would be the Triple Damage, Precise crit monster beam. I’m quite prepared to give them something back if 8” proves too short but anything above & you’re going to have to increase my Narn’s for starters secondary’s.

Dan’s right it needs play testing I’ll give him a game whenever he likes. I’ll even break my word and take those thrice accursed White Stars and 8” weaponry if he insists. Anyone care to lay any bets??

Then if the White Stars need something back we can move on and discuss that rather than this endless theorising which is becoming pointless.

 

[skavendan]

My money is on the ISA Vs Psi Corp.

But hey should bring about some interesting points.

Bring it on you spot headed narn!

 

[Rawwar]

Ha ha talked like that will get you Skin Danced or as we Narn like to call it rammed. :lol:

 

[skavendan]

Didn't the update remove that stupidity?

 

[Hindsight]

I'd be happier if the beam was 12" and the pulsars 8", otherwise as far as I'm concerned there's no nerf against many opponents.

On turn one... White Stars will never get to fire. As it stands now, at 18" I can deploy close, and move, and shoot. With 12" guns, thats practically impossible against most races. You don't see losing an entire turn of shooting a TD Beam weapon as a nerf?

 

[skavendan]

Way we play he never fires on the first turn anyway he jumps behind some terrain and moves in all stealth like. See the ISA ships can turn when you go helm turn to port. unlike lumbering ships.

2 turns of movement = 32" + range of weapons 12/8"

So you will almost certainly be in range next turn but franky I would wait till turn 3 so your behind the enemy then it is game over period!

 

[Hindsight]

At which point the ISA player deserves to win, if you let them fly right up behind you. You have been out maneuvered. Like Eldiablito said, take craft that let you cover your six. Everyone has something for this.

 

[Foxmeister]

I'd be happier if the beam was 12" and the pulsars 8", otherwise as far as I'm concerned there's no nerf against many opponents.

On turn one... White Stars will never get to fire. As it stands now, at 18" I can deploy close, and move, and shoot. With 12" guns, thats practically impossible against most races. You don't see losing an entire turn of shooting a TD Beam weapon as a nerf?

Slightly different deployment and APtE can easily cover the difference distance wise. So, no, IMHO, it's not a nerf!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Foxmeister]

At which point the ISA player deserves to win, if you let them fly right up behind you. You have been out maneuvered. Like Eldiablito said, take craft that let you cover your six. Everyone has something for this.

We're not talking about tactics here! We're talking nerfs! Covering your six is what you have to do anyway with the WS at 18" range, so it is making no difference whatsoever.

Regards,

Dave

 

[skavendan]

lol if you where anywhere near me I would play you using what the ISA when he slaughtered rawwar.
And whatever you choose you would lose.
Saying someone deserves to lose just because you got behind there fleet. with 2 90 turns 16" if you can not manage that with your whitestars then your not a good ISA player.
You could just charge them and still manage it with close blast doors.

I'll take Psi Corp against the ISA and I can tell you now @10" I won't be able to do much to those ships on my flanks never mind behind me.

 

[Burger]

And whatever you choose you would lose.

5 Ashinta. Outmanouver that.

 

[skavendan]

OK well you get warped bombed by bluestars and emined by the gaim and then go head to head @ 18" cuz thats what it currently is with CBDs. My money is on the ISA. They might be manouverable but it won't cut it.

 

[Burger]

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about beating White Stars, not Blue Stars abusing the jump bomb system or e-mining Gaim.
Engaging at 18" suits me fine, you won't get your +1 to beat stealth.

 

[skavendan]

The original comment wasn't aimed at you and I said "I would play you using what the ISA when he slaughtered rawwar" Not I would only take whitestars. But ok in that basis. 1 whitestar on the board 4 in hyperspace 4 warp bombs. Jump in your not really going to get anywhere CBD. Tell me whats the average damage on a ship that has AA dodge CBD against 6 twin linked mini beams?

Even if it needs to be @8" to fire on you.
GOOD if your minbari then it gives another +1 to stealth. You still lose.

 

[Burger]

Which scenario allows 1 WS on the board and 4 in Hyperspace?

5x Ashintas firing on a White Star, 30 ADs gets 22 hits, half dodged leaves 11. Adaptive Armour across 4 weapon systems, you're looking at probably 5 or 6 damage and 2 crits.

Now what are you going to do back to me. 5 White stars, all needing 4+ to beat stealth and that is if you take the scout variant and succeed in your scouting. Take the Nial one and my AF will just rip them to bits. So 2.5 will break stealth, 5AD of beam does 5 hits for 15 damage and 1.7 crits.

So I have killed over 50% of one of your ships. You have killed 1/3 of one of mine. I win.

 

[katadder]

As I see it the problem with White Stars is they have the speed and manoeuvrability to get on a opponents weak flank then the range to hit without most enemies having the ability to retaliate. This is too much and very frustrating for most fleets.

If I was going to shorten anything to 8” it would be the Triple Damage, Precise crit monster beam. I’m quite prepared to give them something back if 8” proves too short but anything above & you’re going to have to increase my Narn’s for starters secondary’s.

Dan’s right it needs play testing I’ll give him a game whenever he likes. I’ll even break my word and take those thrice accursed White Stars and 8” weaponry if he insists. Anyone care to lay any bets??

Then if the White Stars need something back we can move on and discuss that rather than this endless theorising which is becoming pointless.

so do you want 18" secondarys at the moment as thats the ISA range?
sorry but 8" means that the opponent doesnt even need to think he just sits on all stop and if the ISA want to attack him he can attack back.

12" means he can hit you one turn out of range then if he wants to fire next turn usually hes in range as even a WS cannot move to stay out of range but in his own with 12" guns.
lets say hes 9" away, he fires. next turn he has to move 3.75 forwards, 90 degree turn, 1" 90 degree turn, now hes facing the wrong way.
if he trys to overfly you he can only get to 6" past you so you both get to fire.
12" is enough to effect WSs even aginst narn and abbai. and anyway your g'quan has a 30" beam and an e-mine too.

 

[Rawwar]

5 Ashinta. Outmanouver that.

I always said Minbari were a close match to the ISA as it is at present saying that you would lose an Ashinta a turn even if I had to ram them all +1 to crew quality checks anyone?

+1 to bust your stealth at 8" try a bit of Skin Dancing, oops I failed you're rammed. If skin dancing has been stopped I haven't spotted it yet.

Anyway Dan's got Minbari so we can try that one too just for you.

 

[Burger]

+1 to bust your stealth at 8" try a bit of Skin Dancing, oops I failed you're rammed. If skin dancing has been stopped I haven't spotted it yet.

You do know the ramming damage from skin dancing failure would hardly scratch an Ashinta, right?

 

[skavendan]

As I see it the problem with White Stars is they have the speed and manoeuvrability to get on a opponents weak flank then the range to hit without most enemies having the ability to retaliate. This is too much and very frustrating for most fleets.

If I was going to shorten anything to 8” it would be the Triple Damage, Precise crit monster beam. I’m quite prepared to give them something back if 8” proves too short but anything above & you’re going to have to increase my Narn’s for starters secondary’s.

Dan’s right it needs play testing I’ll give him a game whenever he likes. I’ll even break my word and take those thrice accursed White Stars and 8” weaponry if he insists. Anyone care to lay any bets??

Then if the White Stars need something back we can move on and discuss that rather than this endless theorising which is becoming pointless.

so do you want 18" secondarys at the moment as thats the ISA range?
sorry but 8" means that the opponent doesnt even need to think he just sits on all stop and if the ISA want to attack him he can attack back.

12" means he can hit you one turn out of range then if he wants to fire next turn usually hes in range as even a WS cannot move to stay out of range but in his own with 12" guns.
lets say hes 9" away, he fires. next turn he has to move 3.75 forwards, 90 degree turn, 1" 90 degree turn, now hes facing the wrong way.
if he trys to overfly you he can only get to 6" past you so you both get to fire.
12" is enough to effect WSs even aginst narn and abbai. and anyway your g'quan has a 30" beam and an e-mine too.

Couldn't it all stop. can move 0-half speed.?

 

[skavendan]

+1 to bust your stealth at 8" try a bit of Skin Dancing, oops I failed you're rammed. If skin dancing has been stopped I haven't spotted it yet.

You do know the ramming damage from skin dancing failure would hardly scratch an Ashinta, right?

If it's crippled who cares lol.