Project Phoenix Refits

[Terry Mixon]

With all the talk of Hop Drive 1 being introduced as almost ready for prime time in the Singularity campaign, I've decided that the Imperial Navy would jump all over that, even with the high price tag. They'd be fools not to. There wouldn't be much new construction at first, but I can definitely see some refits happening at the yards at Vincennes. MixCorp would be glad to help the Navy out, so here is the first refit.

The Atlantic-Class 75,000-Ton Heavy Cruiser is behind the power curve and is fast approaching obsolescence. That makes it ripe for a refit as ships of this class wouldn't be missed too badly in the line of battle right now. The High Guard times for a refit don't work well for prototype systems as one doesn't have half a millennium to wait, so I'm ignoring that aspect of the process. Those rules need an overhaul.

I have a before and after spreadsheet for comparison, but I tried to keep as much of the original as possible, though some changes and additions were possible and even desirable with the extra space after the hop drive was taken into account.

First, the J4 drive came out, and the H1 drive went in. That cut the fuel requirement by three quarters, but I only recovered half the space, allowing the ship to have a second H1 on tap for quick in and out operations or to penetrate a border area by up to 20 parsecs. That is, after all, the strategic strength of the drive.

I also added an enhanced self-destruct lattice so that the ship can be scuttled if it is in danger of destruction or capture. Can't let the hop drive fall into enemy hands.

Here is the complete list of changes:

J4 (reduced Fuel x1) -> H1 (prototype with governor at x5 the cost of a TL17 production H1, which is 10 times the cost of a comparable J1 drive)
J4 + 8 weeks operating 29,360 fuel -> H1 x2 + 12 weeks operating 16,135 fuel
M5 -> M6 (reduced size x2 to fit)
TL12 power plant 64,500 power points -> TL15 power plant 75,649 power points)
Bridge -> Added Holographic controls
Added enhanced self-destruct lattice to prevent tech falling into enemy hands
Comp/90 -> Comp/110
Software: Advanced Fire Control/2 -> Advanced Fire Control/3
Software: Added Basic Fire Control/5 for the meson spinal weapon
Software: Electronic Warfare/2 -> Electronic Warfare/3
Software: Evade/2 -> Evade/3
Software: Jump Control/4 -> Hop Control/1
Sensors: Improved -> Superior
Sensors: Countermeasures -> Advanced Countermeasures
Added 18 Advanced AutoDocs to the 6 medical bays
Weapons: 4x Point Defense Batteries Type II-L -> 20x Point Defense Batteries Type III-L
Weapons: 6x Particle Beam Medium Bays -> 20x Particle Beam Medium Bays (size reduction x3)
Weapons: 40x Small Missile Bays -> 40x Small Missile Bays (size reduction x3)
Weapons: Added 38 Large Meson Bays (long range, energy efficient)
Screens: Added 10x Nuclear Damper
441 Middle Staterooms -> 331 Middle Staterooms
443 common area -> 332 common area
408 cargo (after the 750 tons reserved for supply units) -> 825 tons (after the 750 tons reserved for supply units)
Added High Quality Entertainment System

The value of the vessel jumped from BCr44.820 to BCR196.541 or 4.3x as expensive. The cost of the refit is higher as it is supposed to be 1.5x the cost of the system being replaced, but I'm not mathing that. Also, the fact it is a prototype drive skews the numbers in ways it shouldn't.

Also attached is a zip file with both the original and the new version.

Here is the original version:



And here is the refitted version:

 

[Galadrion]

This would make a pretty good strike cruiser or a suitable platform for a reconnaissance-in-force vehicle. It could also be a reasonable test-bed for something like the Deepnight Revelation, only there are some trade-offs. (The ship has a lot more in the way of legs, but as written it's got a lot less in the way of sensors and long-range independence regarding support. Updating this ship the same way D.R. was would make up a large amount of the deficits.) All-in-all, it's a reasonable update and fairly interesting.

 

[Sageryne]

Refitting is something that definitely needs a rules update. The hull is a very big and expensive component (especially heavily armoured ones). It makes sense to reuse the hull via a retrofit rather than discarding it. The US Navy keeps older ships in mothballs. They refitted WWII battleships before the Gulf War.

Nice example. Hop drive is something I have not included in my own campaign, but for an Imperial Navy prototype, it makes sense.

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on where the bottlenecks are.

Currently, finance and shipyard capacity.

 

[Galadrion]

The more I consider matters, the more I like this idea as a basis for a long-range survey vessel. Since you're already planning on refitting it with a Hop drive (a very good reason for this to be a one-off, as it's going to be expensive), why not push the boat out a bit and add in a collector? That'll leave you with huge amounts of space for a proper survey suite, some proper subcraft, maybe some biosphere, mining and manufacturing capability (to improve the logistics tail situation)... all sorts of useful (or even just nice) modifications.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The more I consider matters, the more I like this idea as a basis for a long-range survey vessel. Since you're already planning on refitting it with a Hop drive (a very good reason for this to be a one-off, as it's going to be expensive), why not push the boat out a bit and add in a collector? That'll leave you with huge amounts of space for a proper survey suite, some proper subcraft, maybe some biosphere, mining and manufacturing capability (to improve the logistics tail situation)... all sorts of useful (or even just nice) modifications.

Mainly because the Imperium now has a canon reference to having the ability to make a hop drive. Not so for collectors. Maybe the Darrians leaked the data, but I've seen no whisper that it is even being researched. The file with refit version is up there. Feel free to make some changes and make it yours.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I was requested to make another few specific refits. First is a battle tender. I selected the Warmonger-Class 1,000,000-Ton Battle Tender as I had already created a version of it. It's mentioned as hauling the Hadrian-Class 50,000-Ton Battle Riders around but isn't designed. I fixed that.

I'm not going to get into listing all the changes, as you can look between the two if you so desire. The big change is that instead of hauling 16 Hadrians, it can haul 54 now. Fuel for 2 hop 1 and 12 weeks of operations. The rest of the changes you'll have to look to find.

The original version:



The refitted version:



And for completeness, my redesigned version of the Hadrian:



All spreadsheets attached for your use.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The second refitted ship I was requested to make was the Azhanti High Lightning Frontier Cruiser. It started out behind the 8 ball because it was only thrust 2. I solved that by adding a backup maneuver drive with thrust 4 to go with it. Since jump drives can work together, I see no reason that maneuver drives can't.

Other than modding the drives and weapons, I doubled the number of light fighters, their launch bays, and recovery bays. A little more punch that way. Once again, you'll need to compare the two versions to see the tweaks.

The original version:



The Pheonix refit:



The files are attached.

 

[WHULorigan]

As an aside, something else to consider:

In T5 (which first introduced most of these technologies - MgT is just porting it to their game mechanics) there are certain technologies that fall under the category of "paradigm shifts", meaning that a culture does not necessarily just discover them because they reach the appropriate TL. Many cultures, if not most NEVER discover them, in many cases well past the introductory TL.

Three that are explicitly mentioned in the T5 technology section (TL 0-33) are:

1. Jump Drive(s)
2. Fusion Plus
3. Realty Manipulation

A culture may reach TL18, for example , and never invent Jump or Hop (but may hit TL 20 and invent Skip, and then Jump and Hop might seem obvious).

 

[mavikfelna]

I was requested to make another few specific refits. First is a battle tender. I selected the Warmonger-Class 1,000,000-Ton Battle Tender as I had already created a version of it. It's mentioned as hauling the Hadrian-Class 50,000-Ton Battle Riders around but isn't designed. I fixed that.

I'm not going to get into listing all the changes, as you can look between the two if you so desire. The big change is that instead of hauling 16 Hadrians, it can haul 54 now. Fuel for 2 hop 1 and 12 weeks of operations. The rest of the changes you'll have to look to find.

The original version:

View attachment 7333View attachment 7334

The refitted version:

View attachment 7344View attachment 7345

And for completeness, my redesigned version of the Hadrian:

View attachment 7341View attachment 7342

All spreadsheets attached for your use.

Just a quick aside, while I realize your Hadrian is just using the Mongoose template, it really annoys me that they don't install them in groups of 5. You need 5 of them, by the rules in HG, to reduce the DD value of nuclear weapons to just D. Less than 5 dampers and you are taking catastrophicly higher damage.

There is no such rule for meson screens, so odd numbers there are fine.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Just a quick aside, while I realize your Hadrian is just using the Mongoose template, it really annoys me that they don't install them in groups of 5. You need 5 of them, by the rules in HG, to reduce the DD value of nuclear weapons to just D. Less than 5 dampers and you are taking catastrophicly higher damage.

There is no such rule for meson screens, so odd numbers there are fine.

I'll tweak that.

Done.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Realty Manipulation

You can make a lot of money with that one if you don't get caught.

 

[Terry Mixon]

You can make a lot of money with that one if you don't get caught.

If you get caught, you can undo it, right?

 

[CordwainerFish]

If you get caught, you can undo it, right?

Well, you'll be able to afford a team of good lawyers.

 

[WHULorigan]

Well, you'll be able to afford a team of good lawyers.

That's how you can tell reality was manipulated . . .

 

[Endie]

Mainly because the Imperium now has a canon reference to having the ability to make a hop drive. Not so for collectors. Maybe the Darrians leaked the data, but I've seen no whisper that it is even being researched. The file with refit version is up there. Feel free to make some changes and make it yours.

We can make prototype fusion reactors, too. But we don’t mass produce them. I think this is a difference between peoples’ interpretation of prototypes. For me, they’re extremely rare (otherwise we’re not really at TL15, we’re at TL16 or 17).

Maybe Vincennes has built two or three of them and you can refer to them by name in the same way you can individual fusion reactors in our world.

And IMTU, the last thing you’d do with such an experimental piece of kit is send it off on an long exploration mission. Not just because you can’t risk it falling into Zhodani or Solomani or Unknown Empire You Just Found hands. But because it’s a prototype and nobody knows if it will make six hops then fizzle and strand both crew and highly expensive prototype where they cannot be recovered.

That said, for people for whom ship design is the game, and who long for variety and novelty, I can see why “prototype” wouldn’t mean “fusion reactor” so much as “formula one car”: achievable at a scale of dozens a year (but still, to me, so unreliable!)

 

[Endie]

That said, I know that someone mentioned using them for raiding. That would be an insane use.

The boring truth is that hop drive couriers would win a war against a peer adversary: massively faster communications would allow the Imperium to shorten the detect-plan-coordinate-respond cycle so dramatically that they would defeat in detail anyone not overwhelming enough to be strong everywhere.

You simply don’t put that strategic level of multiplier behind the front lines performing tactical or even operational tasks where it can be detected (giving away your advantage) let alone captured! That would be like sticking Turing’s computer on a battleship covered with huge aerials and parking it off Tokyo Bay in 1942 decoding local radio calls in a quest to find out where a specific freighter was going to go next.

 

[CordwainerFish]

That's how you can tell reality was manipulated . . .

...Competent lawyers?

 

[WHULorigan]

We can make prototype fusion reactors, too. But we don’t mass produce them. I think this is a difference between peoples’ interpretation of prototypes. For me, they’re extremely rare (otherwise we’re not really at TL15, we’re at TL16 or 17).

Maybe Vincennes has built two or three of them and you can refer to them by name in the same way you can individual fusion reactors in our world.

And IMTU, the last thing you’d do with such an experimental piece of kit is send it off on an long exploration mission. Not just because you can’t risk it falling into Zhodani or Solomani or Unknown Empire You Just Found hands. But because it’s a prototype and nobody knows if it will make six hops then fizzle and strand both crew and highly expensive prototype where they cannot be recovered.

That said, for people for whom ship design is the game, and who long for variety and novelty, I can see why “prototype” wouldn’t mean “fusion reactor” so much as “formula one car”: achievable at a scale of dozens a year (but still, to me, so unreliable!)

Exactly. The whole point of a prototype is that you find one, or a few examples, at research stations as projects under development, full of bugs and problems, cranky and unreliable.

Using the T5 development scale (which is a little more fleshed-out and with which I am a little more familiar):

• Experimental (TL "-3"): A hand-build monstrosity device from cobbled together components - something you might find in the equivalent of Nikola Tesla's lab. Hope it doesn't blow-up in your face.
• Prototype (TL "-2"): An early research and development model found at a research facility; unique or one of a small handful of like devices. Quirky, cranky, usually top-secret, and NOT for production or use, except for testing and data collecting for developmental purposes.
• Early (TL "-1"): An early production model, in limited use in special applications. Usually quirky and buggy.
• Standard (TL "±0"): Mature technology in general use within its sphere.
• Basic (TL "±0"): Effectively the same as Early, but now built with the mature Standard technology with the bugs worked out. No frills, bulkier, and cheaper.
• Generic (TL "+1"): At a point when improvements are generally being made to the technology paradigm at 1 TL higher, the solid, older "Standard" tech of the previous TL can be built by just about anyone cheaply and mass-produced to the same common standards at the higher TL base.

 

[Cogohi]

A couple of the real world science related channels I watch use NASA's Technology Readiness Levels (I can't link yet so search the web for "nasa trl") to take a rough guess at when a particular technology will become available or what challenges still need to be solved.