Progress on 2e

[Burger]

Beams would be even better for this tactic, they could just sweep across the entire area, and stop when they saw explosions.

But I don't agree with this SA, it is unrealistic, when the area you are talking about "flooding with fire" is something like the area of a small moon.

 

[tneva82]

Beams would be even better for this tactic, they could just sweep across the entire area, and stop when they saw explosions.

OTOH even with beams hitting the tiny spot where ship is from the huge gulf of space is rahter...Unlikely.

 

[H]

Beams would be even better for this tactic, they could just sweep across the entire area, and stop when they saw explosions.

But I don't agree with this SA, it is unrealistic, when the area you are talking about "flooding with fire" is something like the area of a small moon.

thats no moon......

 

[Alexb83]

Well they should have a way to just fire your weapons and hope you hit something like they did in the B5 movie in the beginning. where EA came across the minbari fleet they could not lock on so they just fired blindly and got some lucky hits....

What about something like a special action called "Manual Firing" where if you are under half range to the target you can only fire 1 arc (or even only 1 weapon), completely ignoring stealth, but all weapon AD are reduced by half rounding down. You would basically be flodding the area with munitions hoping to hit the sneaky git. Beams seem a little too precise for this kind of tactic so I would say they are inelligible for this Special Action.

I suggested something similar to this some time ago in a thread on post-armageddon stealth, it was met with general derision along the lines of 'if you're going to be firing 1/2 AD or AD with no traits, what's the point'... I'd say that the point is you're actually standing a fair chance of doing some damage rather than none, but that's just me. Fact is, stealth is so poor now within the range of most weapons (generally only beams shoot over the 15 inch mark) that this sort of SA is a bit redundant, especially with fighters, scouts etc.

 

[H]

Well they should have a way to just fire your weapons and hope you hit something like they did in the B5 movie in the beginning. where EA came across the minbari fleet they could not lock on so they just fired blindly and got some lucky hits....

What about something like a special action called "Manual Firing" where if you are under half range to the target you can only fire 1 arc (or even only 1 weapon), completely ignoring stealth, but all weapon AD are reduced by half rounding down. You would basically be flodding the area with munitions hoping to hit the sneaky git. Beams seem a little too precise for this kind of tactic so I would say they are inelligible for this Special Action.

I suggested something similar to this some time ago in a thread on post-armageddon stealth, it was met with general derision along the lines of 'if you're going to be firing 1/2 AD or AD with no traits, what's the point'... I'd say that the point is you're actually standing a fair chance of doing some damage rather than none, but that's just me. Fact is, stealth is so poor now within the range of most weapons (generally only beams shoot over the 15 inch mark) that this sort of SA is a bit redundant, especially with fighters, scouts etc.

WHAT? I missed a derision session, damnit!

 

[LordClinto]

....But I don't agree with this SA, it is unrealistic, when the area you are talking about "flooding with fire" is something like the area of a small moon.

Thats why I suggested it be at under half the weapons range. Maybe it should be at a maximum range of something like 6"?

 

[Iain McGhee]

I always took it that flooding the area was what always happened when shooting at the Minbari (doubt if any of the young races could ever get a lock) and if you beat the Stealth score it meant you got lucky and fired in the right area.

 

[katadder]

yes the centauri have changed but its a change alot of people asked for as by the show the centauri werent a beam heavy fleet like they currently are.
they will still have beams, but this isnt their main hitting style. centauri players will be happy i think with the new style although they will have to change tactics. and i dont think the people playing centauri will have a problem with them either, as theres more ways to deal with the centauri than before where you just had to close the range on the beam team.

 

[Arcadia]

Some time ago, there was a suggestion for stealth that was pretty good and easy to apply. If you fail the stealth roll you fire normal AD and Traits. But the target ship gets +1 to hull. Yes to hit a hull 6 ship now hull 7 you will need at lest AP Trait.

Arcadia.

 

[Burger]

If any of these things are introduced, you need to increase stealth scores. The stealth system is actually fairly balanced am I think, its just frustrating that you eithe rbreak it or don't. They are 2 totally different things. Most of the suggestions involve giving the attacker some kind of freebie in the case he doesn't make his stealth roll... well to maintain balance there has to be a bit of swing the other way, too.

The Armageddon range modifiers effectively reduced all stealth by 1, unless you were between 8" and 10" away. This change was balanced by increasing Minbari's damage and crew values back up to SFOS levels and allowing their variants. So, what boost would the Minbari get to balance this SA?

 

[emperorpenguin]

but for one moment playing devils advocate, EP and Katedder may like them, but that doesn't mean we will
EP wanted to change Centauri for a long time, I think his origional idea was more what we see inthe show, de-beamed, but with lots of um, was it plasma weapons? I'd have to go looking through past posts

Ion cannons is what you're looking for and Matt already spilled the beans on those at the start of the thread!

The only way you will not like the new Centauri is if you like playing beam-team fleets, in which case you're a cheesy git who deserves his comeuppance! :lol:
Seriously, they have shaken off the B5 Wars headache and play more like on screen with a few nice toys.....

 

[H]

but for one moment playing devils advocate, EP and Katedder may like them, but that doesn't mean we will
EP wanted to change Centauri for a long time, I think his origional idea was more what we see inthe show, de-beamed, but with lots of um, was it plasma weapons? I'd have to go looking through past posts

Ion cannons is what you're looking for and Matt already spilled the beans on those at the start of the thread!

The only way you will not like the new Centauri is if you like playing beam-team fleets, in which case you're a cheesy git who deserves his comeuppance! :lol:
Seriously, they have shaken off the B5 Wars headache and play more like on screen with a few nice toys.....

Thank your great maker that you have fewer beams! damned cheesy fleets!

 

[Da Boss]

hmm perhaps - although mention was made of the fact that a reasonable number of Centauri ships are also "endangered" - not that many people appeared bothered I don't think - but most of them were not beam ships?

Also interceptors and loss of them was mentioned on Centauri capital ships................as I said before I don't understand any capital ships not having them if the race has the Tech and doesn't have something else
be that GEG, Stealth, Dodge, superior damage points, Adaptive armour - or in some cases both.

 

[emperorpenguin]

hmm perhaps - although mention was made of the fact that a reasonable number of Centauri ships are also "endangered" - not that many people appeared bothered I don't think - but most of them were not beam ships?

Also interceptors and loss of them was mentioned on Centauri capital ships................as I said before I don't understand any capital ships not having them if the race has the Tech and doesn't have something else
be that GEG, Stealth, Dodge, superior damage points, Adaptive armour - or in some cases both.

the centauri had the biggest fleet list once the EA was divided in 3 and there were a lot of variants doing the same job as other ships only clearly better in some fashion.
where that can't be addressed it is better to remove an unnecessary variant than leave in under or overpowered ships.

As for interceptors how many times do you see Centauri ships shooting down incoming fire? the answer is once and it ain't the big boys...

 

[Da Boss]

Perhaps but how many ships do you see in the show - the Octurion ever? and that was not my point - what do they replace interceptors with - cos if say, the Primus loses them and reduces its beam power/range- it s a long way to get to enemy ships with its hull pts? I think it is off hand one of the lowest hull points at Battle?
Also if as has been suggested the Liati drops to Battle - why would you use the Primus minus interceptors?

 

[emperorpenguin]

why would you use the Primus minus interceptors?

because it is an awesome ship! playtesting is still ongoing by the way and i won't go into specifics.

 

[Triggy]

Perhaps but how many ships do you see in the show - the Octurion ever? and that was not my point - what do they replace interceptors with - cos if say, the Primus loses them and reduces its beam power/range- it s a long way to get to enemy ships with its hull pts? I think it is off hand one of the lowest hull points at Battle?
Also if as has been suggested the Liati drops to Battle - why would you use the Primus minus interceptors?

The ships will be rebalanced to keep each as a viable choice (e.g. If a ship loses Interceptors then it will either gain Damage, Hull or firepower to compensate)

 

[tneva82]

I think it is off hand one of the lowest hull points at Battle?

Hull 6, damage 42(didn't omega have just 40?). What low hull point are you talking about?

 

[emperorpenguin]

I think it is off hand one of the lowest hull points at Battle?

Hull 6, damage 42(didn't omega have just 40?). What low hull point are you talking about?

Hull 6 damage 45 and awesome firepower!

 

[Da Boss]

low hull like I said

Lakara Hull 6 54 damage Inteceptors
Avioki Hull6 64 damage
Kalicva Hull6 64 damage
Wahant Hull 6 50 damage
Orestes Hull6 48 damage Interceptors
Omega Hull6 48 damage Intecpetors
Troligan Hull 5 55 damage Stealth
GQuan Hull6 55 damage
Raiders Nova Hull6 60 damage Interceptos

and thats all fine cos the Primus has a deadily beam (too good) and interceptors but if it does not and instead it has good short range guns -- it dies getting there. Becoems a ship not to take when you have a hull6 AJP Laiti with cooler beam and dodge and ...........