Progress on 2e

[tneva82]

think of a man with a machine gun versus 1000 men with spears, yep he can kill alot but he wont get them all before he dies.

By the way. Poor example. Of course 1000 ka'bin'taks are going to blow out vorlon HC.

Better example would be: machine gun versus one man with 1000 spear. Now which one is going to win :lol:

I was talking 1 to 1. You suddenly started to talking 1 to 1000. "Bit" different thing...

 

[katadder]

no it shows the tech gap. the vorlon HC has its one big gun, the ka'bin'tak has far more guns.
what do you want? the vorlons/shadows to be even more unplayable and put at ancient level for their ships?
if you read the fluff of the ka'bin'tak it says its the biggest ship since the dissapearance of the ancients. so nothing wrong with it being same level. also if you use ISDs these ships would never encounter each other anyway.
plus i think the vorlons/shadows and other ancients are at the pinnacle of their technology so they are not going to advance. they have been like this for millenia, who knows, perhaps they designed these ships after 20 years too
and as i have pointed out many times but you choose to ignore, the vorlons/shadows ignore crits and have no crew score, this is a huge technological gap/advantage so even though a Ka'bin'tak may be on the same PL 1v1 my money is on the vorlon HC or the shadowship.
hell we did a 1v1 ka'bin'tak versus neroon and the neroon wins due to stealth, range and precise weapons critting the ka'bin'tak down to speed 0 and no foreward weapons.

 

[Reaverman]

You are going to have a hard time trying to balance those two out, like you said the HC has Adaptive Armour, No Crew, its an ancient etc

 

[Alexb83]

we did a 1v1 ka'bin'tak versus neroon and the neroon wins due to stealth, range and precise weapons critting the ka'bin'tak down to speed 0 and no foreward weapons.

That was a pretty flukey set of crits on turn 1 of firing, though. The ability to actually throw fighters at a Ka'bin'tak without having to worry about them popping instantly was novel, though.

It could just as easily have gone completely the other way thanks to a bad initiative or good stealth roll.

Ka'bin'tak vs. VHC would also be heavily reliant on how well the Vorlon rolled for crits against the narn, it has an awful lot of hull and crew to get through, and speed is not a big issue for it to lose. Only weapon crits could really stop it.

 

[Reaverman]

we did a 1v1 ka'bin'tak versus neroon and the neroon wins due to stealth, range and precise weapons critting the ka'bin'tak down to speed 0 and no foreward weapons.

That was a pretty flukey set of crits on turn 1 of firing, though. The ability to actually throw fighters at a Ka'bin'tak without having to worry about them popping instantly was novel, though.

It could just as easily have gone completely the other way thanks to a bad initiative or good stealth roll.

Ka'bin'tak vs. VHC would also be heavily reliant on how well the Vorlon rolled for crits against the narn, it has an awful lot of hull and crew to get through, and speed is not a big issue for it to lose. Only weapon crits could really stop it.

A VHC would seriously maul, if not destory a Ka'Bin'Tak. It just slowy moves forward, and crit munches the hell of the 'Tak. On Average

(Based on the fact that the Ships are going to be about 30" apart)

Turn 1 the 'Tak will give out 35 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (280), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 122/132)


Turn 2. More than likely the ships are now about 26" apart. The 'Tak will give out 35 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (260), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 108/128)

Turn 3. More than likely the ships are now about 22" apart. The 'Tak will give out 61 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (214), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 90/110)

Turn 4. More than likely the ships are now about 18" apart. The 'Tak will give out 61 points of Damage, takes 25 points of Damage and 3 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (168), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 65/85)

By the end of Turn 4, the 'Tak would have taken 9 Crits on average. 50% of those, are more than likely going to be movement crits. I'd be surprised if the 'Tak would win this engagement. In fact the only way to beat this ship, would be lots of smaller ships and attempt to out flank it.

 

[Burger]

Its a dice game, any 2 ships playing 1v1 have an even chance of whining.

 

[Reaverman]

Its a dice game, any 2 ships playing 1v1 have an even chance of whining.

Surely you mean winning?

 

[H]

no, I think he meant whinning.

 

[Reaverman]

no, I think he meant whinning.

I'd love him to play me with the 'Tak, against my VHC. 10 games, and see what the results are then

 

[Burger]

Yes I did mean whining

 

[H]

I think the results would be VHC 10, K'B'Tak 0
unless you somehow deployed your VHC so the tak could sit behind it
the old war VHC Versus A Tak was a good one to one fight, the tak winning both i played, but the new Vorlons are much harder and a bit scary

of course, the VHC is on a looser the minute something sits behind it, in a big game, assuming you can kill it's escort, just get something sitting on it's backside, and it's game over, or is it? depends if you can kill it in ten turns!

 

[Davesaint]

we did a 1v1 ka'bin'tak versus neroon and the neroon wins due to stealth, range and precise weapons critting the ka'bin'tak down to speed 0 and no foreward weapons.

That was a pretty flukey set of crits on turn 1 of firing, though. The ability to actually throw fighters at a Ka'bin'tak without having to worry about them popping instantly was novel, though.

It could just as easily have gone completely the other way thanks to a bad initiative or good stealth roll.

Ka'bin'tak vs. VHC would also be heavily reliant on how well the Vorlon rolled for crits against the narn, it has an awful lot of hull and crew to get through, and speed is not a big issue for it to lose. Only weapon crits could really stop it.

A VHC would seriously maul, if not destory a Ka'Bin'Tak. It just slowy moves forward, and crit munches the hell of the 'Tak. On Average

(Based on the fact that the Ships are going to be about 30" apart)

Turn 1 the 'Tak will give out 35 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (280), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 122/132)


Turn 2. More than likely the ships are now about 26" apart. The 'Tak will give out 35 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (260), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 108/128)

Turn 3. More than likely the ships are now about 22" apart. The 'Tak will give out 61 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (214), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 90/110)

Turn 4. More than likely the ships are now about 18" apart. The 'Tak will give out 61 points of Damage, takes 25 points of Damage and 3 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (168), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 65/85)

By the end of Turn 4, the 'Tak would have taken 9 Crits on average. 50% of those, are more than likely going to be movement crits. I'd be surprised if the 'Tak would win this engagement. In fact the only way to beat this ship, would be lots of smaller ships and attempt to out flank it.

Reverman,

Are you assuming that the 'tak would get his boresight in arc or not? Their initiatives are actually going to be pretty similar since the 'tak has command +2


Dave

 

[Alexb83]

There's no initiative sink - the boresight isn't really an issue. Damage wise, the Ka'bin'tak outranges the VHC, so there's a free round of shooting from emines (pretty much guaranteed 10-30 damage per turn). Then you throw in the torpedoes and the boresight beam.

Big difference is that the Narn will be getting hits on as little as 3, the best the Vorlons can do is hit on 4s... it's all in average dice territory, and yes, how the dice are rolled on those crits against the narn. Will have to bash it out on Vassal a few times and do averages.

 

[CheesyRobMan]

This all assumes that the Vorlon player is silly enough to put his VHC right in front of the Narn's biggest battleship. It'd be a lot more fluffy for the Vorlons to start with a couple of Transports on the board, and then drop the Destroyers and Cruisers in from hyperspace to the sides or rear of the Narn ships. I'm betting that even the KaBinTak's side guns aren't as good as a Lightning Cannon...

 

[Reaverman]

That was a pretty flukey set of crits on turn 1 of firing, though. The ability to actually throw fighters at a Ka'bin'tak without having to worry about them popping instantly was novel, though.

It could just as easily have gone completely the other way thanks to a bad initiative or good stealth roll.

Ka'bin'tak vs. VHC would also be heavily reliant on how well the Vorlon rolled for crits against the narn, it has an awful lot of hull and crew to get through, and speed is not a big issue for it to lose. Only weapon crits could really stop it.

A VHC would seriously maul, if not destory a Ka'Bin'Tak. It just slowy moves forward, and crit munches the hell of the 'Tak. On Average

(Based on the fact that the Ships are going to be about 30" apart)

Turn 1 the 'Tak will give out 35 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (280), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 122/132)


Turn 2. More than likely the ships are now about 26" apart. The 'Tak will give out 35 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (260), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 108/128)

Turn 3. More than likely the ships are now about 22" apart. The 'Tak will give out 61 points of Damage, takes 18 points of Damage and 2 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (214), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 90/110)

Turn 4. More than likely the ships are now about 18" apart. The 'Tak will give out 61 points of Damage, takes 25 points of Damage and 3 crits.

VHC Regens on Average 15 points of Damage (168), 'Tak (excluding crits is on 65/85)

By the end of Turn 4, the 'Tak would have taken 9 Crits on average. 50% of those, are more than likely going to be movement crits. I'd be surprised if the 'Tak would win this engagement. In fact the only way to beat this ship, would be lots of smaller ships and attempt to out flank it.

Reverman,

Are you assuming that the 'tak would get his boresight in arc or not? Their initiatives are actually going to be pretty similar since the 'tak has command +2


Dave

Actually those calculations, would be on the assumption that the Narn won on initiative, so technically they would only win 50% of the rolls. So the VHC, would actually have taken less damage.

 

[Triggy]

Which is the problem with abstracted conflicts with boresighted ships. Most of the time they'll get a target, even if it's not the one they want.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

What a lot of whaffle!!!!

Having been offline for some time, I found this thread and started reading with a huge grin.

But you guys just kept going and going, now spent over two hours churning through this with nothing else new on the game!

As to the KBT v VCA debate.
1 - doesn't exist, one wasn't created till the other had already left. Know many people don't use YIS dates, but this is a game based upon a known history, and the YIS dates do matter!
2 - Not a direct comparison. KBT is the biggest ship the Narn ever field. VCA is the third biggest ship fielded by the Vorlons, there's the bigger Dreadnought to come (please gods and goddesses of war let it be in e2) and the planet killer. Now compare the KBT to a planet killer, doesn't look so impressive.
3 - priority levels are not exact, just a rough approximation of capabilities. Not all arm ships are built equal, just means the're bigger than a war ship.

There, 2p worth

 

[Valen is my name]

why will EA get the Victory class destroyer? Its an ISA ship. Will they still be able to use it?

 

[Tank]

Well In Crusade the Excalibur is crewed by EA regulars, with some civilian expertso provide support. Its not crewed by Rangers

 

[lastbesthope]

Maybe it's crewed by very very covert Rangers :wink:

LBH