Profiteering from the rulebooks

[Steve B]

This is the second topic that's made me want to post. (I *wanted* to post about how cool I think the Duck minis are, but I was lazy and never made an account.) So, this is my first one.

While I am very eager for MRQ next month, I agree with the statement already made in another thread...I'm really starting to feel that Mongoose is taking advantage of said eagerness.

The truth of it is: they are selling $35 worth of material for $50.

There is no good reason to have a 120-page main book for $25 and a 96-page companion for another $25. This should be one 216-page book for $35, maybe $40.

I totally don't accept the "ultra-cheap inital buy" the main book is marketed as (and wasn't it supposed to be $20?) Most anyone can see right through it...anyone that plans on playing will want both, and two books will make more money than one.

While I'll be getting them, I think this may actually backfire as far as bringing in new players. First, the ultra skinny main rules may turn off those looking for more options, more crunch, or just more. Then they'll realize they actually need 3 books (MRQ, Companion, and setting of choice) to truly play at the basic level, not to mention a Monster book, magic book, cult book, etc. With all these other books coming down the pike, I really think they should have done us the courtesy of having the "Companion" material in the main book.

I think this was a poor marketing decision designed with profit in mind. I think the system would be much more credible in one truly complete book that's still smaller than the d20 PHB.

Like I said, I'm in--I want it and can afford it (which is what I think the Mongoose is planning on) but it does give me an initial bitterness to overcome.

As a suggestion, when it's time to reprint, combine the main book and companion into one at the earliest opportunity! And you'll get my money for another book..assuming I like the system!

[Edit: fixed the title for better grammar]

Steve

 

[andakitty]

So you are convinced Mongoose is trying to take advantage of you and you are going along with it? :roll: :lol:

You know, I don't think they are charging what the market would bear. But then, they are creating something I have been wanting for a long, long time. Also, I prefer to give them the benefit of a doubt.

 

[Chardros The Reaper]

I think it's also a matter of not putting all of your eggs into one basket. If the initial sales of the corebook are dismal, they may still have time to cease printing and distribution of the following titles (I have no idea how long it takes to print these suckers, this is just speculation). This way they can test the waters with less risk to themselves (and buyers) in the financial department. And sure, it's going to be more profitable for them but if they produce a good product they should make some money off of it, I'm sure no one on Mongoose's staff is wealthy. That way at least we'll get more of what we like.

Besides, it's not any worse that spending $35 on a 96 page supplement from WOTC detailing aberations ad nauseum.

 

[Lord Twig]

If I recall correctly, the Deluxe box of RQIII cost $40 back in the early 80s. Then you also needed to buy the Gods of Glorantha and Genertella boxes for another $20 each to get a complete game. So $80.

So now we have $25 for the Main book, $25 for the Companion and $35 for the Glorantha setting. If we also add in $25 each for the RQ Monsters and Cults of Glorantha books that comes to $135 for five books. That's not bad for 20 years of inflation.

Compare to D&D $90 for the PHB, DMG and MM, plus $90 for Eberron Campaign setting, Races of Eberron and Magic of Eberron and you are up to $180. People pay that gladly.

Another $120 for the Complete series, another $120 for the Races of series, another $30 each for environment books, $30 each for monster races books. Not sure on exact numbers but you are now looking at about $600-$700.

Ummm... Yeah. RQ looks like it will be the cheaper way to go.

 

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Perhaps a better comparison is what you need to play D&D 3.5 without going overboard.

In the UK you can get the three main books for UKP51 (less on amazon). This is what you need to play the game more or less without a setting apart from a few sample deities. This gives you character creation, magic and monsters.

MRQ will have the basic book (UKP 15), the companion (UKP 15) plus Runequest Monsters (UKP 20?). So from an RRP perspective these seem about the same at least in the UK albeit I agree the 'page count' will be less, although I am not sure that is a drawback if the approach is elegant enough. Whether it was a good idea to split the core and companion books remains to be seen.

I'm off on a business trip later today and will be interested to find out next weekend if anyone saw MRQ at the 22 July open day.

Regards

Edward

 

[Steve B]

Rereading my first post, I feel like I came across like one of those folks full of venom and hatred that's "forced" to buy a product. That's certainly not the case...like I said a couple times I am eagerly awaiting MRQ.

However, I felt I should voice concern over the MRQ+Companion setup and hopefully Mongoose will take notice and reconsider doing this again.

A single 216-page book is hardly massive...it would still be smaller that most "core rulebooks."
Just for ease of use, I'd rather pay $50 for one book than $50 for two.
But then when I look at my other recent purchases, it seems like the MRQ+Companion is a money-making move. $50 for 216 black and white pages is rather steep when compared to the almost 300-page (full color) "Deadlands Reloaded" book I just bought for $40.

So maybe I'm telling Mongoose exactly what they want to hear: I want their product and even though I think it's overpriced, its not so much so that I'll avoid it. But the reality of it is I would much rather have one book than two and they could probably set the price point on one book such that it preserves the profit margin while still being cheaper than $50.

Looking forward to Aug!
Steve

 

[atgxtg]

I have sort of the same feeling here. IMO they should have just put all the stuff in the Companion into the main book.

I'd also have liked the idea of a boxed set where you can get the "essentials" (game rules, creature stats, magic) all at once in order to get a view of the whole game.

THe currenlt layout might just backfire on Mongoose, too. I have several RPGs where I hated the "basic" system but like the game with the "advanced" or "optional" rules. By putting such info in a differenert book, I think they are going to loose people who might have liked the game if they were aware of stuff that will be in the companion.

 

[Mac V]

I know boxed sets are pretty much a thing of the past. I know there's been a few, but they are too expensive and retailers shy away from them.

 

[atgxtg]

I know boxed sets are pretty much a thing of the past. I know there's been a few, but they are too expensive and retailers shy away from them.

*Sigh*

Yeah, I guess so. It is just that RQ Box Sets were where the game really shone compared to AD&D. I used to love getting a D&D player who spent $18-25 bucks buying a series of D&D connected modules and showing them what I got for my $12-15 in a RQ boxed set like Borderlands. A setting; detailed NPC writeups; book of encounters; player handoputs; big fold out map covering the area; seven premade adventures; lots of hooks for additonal adventures.

 

[andakitty]

I'm with you there. Pavis and The Big Rubble, Borderlands, Ringworld, many more. Those puppies were loaded, weren't they? Why are they not viable today, anyway? Is it the cost of the box?

 

[Lord Twig]

As much as I have been defending the current model, I have to admit that one 216-page book with Main and Companion rules would be very nice.

I know I was thrilled to see the perfect-bound Deluxe RQIII book that had all books in one volume.

 

[Mac V]

I don't remember the whole issue, but I recall a large part being that the retailers didn't like them because they took too much room on the shelf. I also think the print costs of all the different items gets expensive quick. The Wilderlands box set from Necromancer games is an example. I think it retails around $80. I do miss them though. There was something more appealing to the box vs a hardcover...

 

[SteveMND]

I know I was thrilled to see the perfect-bound Deluxe RQIII book that had all books in one volume.

I assume that was a repirnt, maybe? If so, is it still available somewhere?

I was (and still am) a big fan of the cardtock-cover book printing they put out for RQIII, but not so much of the cheap flimsy paper covers.

EDIT: Hmm, ait. by perfect-bound, do you mean the flat-edge binding with the cardstock covers, or a more traditional binding, like the D&D core books have? if the former, I think I did have that one.

I seem to recall all the pages seperating from the binding in short order. On the plus side, it was super easy to just use a hole-punch and collate them all in a 3-ring binder... which I actually found far more useful.

 

[Halfbat]

Is it not the case (and I haven't seen it so we'll have to see) that the core rulebook is probably that which is going to be OGC and others non-core? It would make a load of sense for me if that were the case as they'd be doing us a favour...

 

[Malakor]

I know I'm probably in a very small minority here, but I for one would love to see game books released on a good, sturdy stock and coil bound. These things are not coffee table books, they are resources that get used on a massive scale.

Just me though, even the guys in my group say I'm a loon on that one (and my wife has been saying that for over two decades now on general principle )

 

[SteveMND]

but I for one would love to see game books released on a good, sturdy stock and coil bound. These things are not coffee table books, they are resources that get used on a massive scale.

You know, I'd go along with that. I doubt such an arrangement would ever be a likely to be a publisher's first thought, but given the opportunity, I'd probably buy that myself over the hardbound (assuming it was sturdy enough).

 

[atgxtg]

I know I'm probably in a very small minority here, but I for one would love to see game books released on a good, sturdy stock and coil bound. These things are not coffee table books, they are resources that get used on a massive scale.

Just me though, even the guys in my group say I'm a loon on that one (and my wife has been saying that for over two decades now on general principle )

I agree with you there. One thing that I like about buying games online in pdf fromat is that I can print them out on paper of my own choosing and then coil bind them with plaster, waterpoof, covers. I think I like how my printed version of Pendragon 5th Edtion looks better than the hardbound edtion. THe new, plastic coils are much better than the old aluminum ones that used to bend and ruin my notebooks.

 

[atgxtg]

I don't remember the whole issue, but I recall a large part being that the retailers didn't like them because they took too much room on the shelf. I also think the print costs of all the different items gets expensive quick. The Wilderlands box set from Necromancer games is an example. I think it retails around $80. I do miss them though. There was something more appealing to the box vs a hardcover...

I know TSR/WotC made a big stink about boxed sets, but they were viable for several other companies for quite a while. Many of the old RQ stuff is out in perfect bound edtions, and while that is nice, there were certain advantages to having multiple books in a box. For one thing, perfect bound books don't lie flat.

 

[atgxtg]

I know I was thrilled to see the perfect-bound Deluxe RQIII book that had all books in one volume.

I assume that was a repirnt, maybe? If so, is it still available somewhere?I

Avalon Hill ISBN 1-566038-082-9
RuneQuest Deluxe Edtion, THird Edition 1993 printing. Chaosim 8570
perfect bound 280 pages

You best chance of finding one is probably throuugh eBay. I know as I post this there is one on sale now ($12.50, 40 minutes left).

They do pop up from time to time, and the book is worth it-especially at $12.50!

 

[Malakor]

I know I was thrilled to see the perfect-bound Deluxe RQIII book that had all books in one volume.

I assume that was a repirnt, maybe? If so, is it still available somewhere?I

Avalon Hill ISBN 1-566038-082-9
RuneQuest Deluxe Edtion, THird Edition 1993 printing. Chaosim 8570
perfect bound 280 pages

You best chance of finding one is probably throuugh eBay. I know as I post this there is one on sale now ($12.50, 40 minutes left).

They do pop up from time to time, and the book is worth it-especially at $12.50!

heh, I have that same edition in my briefcase at the moment . . . I pulled it out of my files and started looking over it again when I first read about the Mongoose version coming down the pike.