Doctor Who
Mongoose
I JUST WONDERED WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE THINKS!
Pre-Paint or not Pre-Paint, that is the Question . . . . .
- Thread starter Doctor Who
- Start date
I went with the second last optoin. I thought I'd get into AT43 but its too expensive. I don't care if it works oput the same as buying it and doing it your self, paint and brushes and all. If my stuff is going to be painted and I have to pay for it I at least want ot have a say in what it will look like in the end. And if someone say one more time I can paint over it, why can I not get new models withuot the paint which increases the cost of it?
Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
I actually tried AT-43, but the game play is weak and the standard of the miniatures changed.
The ones in the Starter set were quite nice, basic - but nice.
Then the first wave of releases came and the paint quality and style changed.
Its easier to paint your own, at least the Armies look different but uniform.
The ones in the Starter set were quite nice, basic - but nice.
Then the first wave of releases came and the paint quality and style changed.
Its easier to paint your own, at least the Armies look different but uniform.
I sort of like the idea, and as I said before I'd probably pick up a few things, mostly to make larger formations of troop types I was still looking to expand- LAMI and Exosuits. There is one guy in my group who will definitely start playing if pre-paints are available. A few others might as well, if they look good enough and have a decent price point.
One concern I have is that Pre-paints *could* lead to the type of situation similar to a board gaming group playing something of a boxed game like Descent. You can get a bunch of people playing but only smaller subset really own and buy into the game. Why buy it when the other guy has it? One answer with painted wargaming used to be that I'm putting time into making this my own just as the other guy did by all the pre-work to make an army. But now.. instant gratification can lead to a more disposable attitude and the pieces that are played with lose their perceived value, imho.
My concern above is not aimed solely at Mongoose, but instead at the shift in the industry toward pre-painted miniatures lines.
One concern I have is that Pre-paints *could* lead to the type of situation similar to a board gaming group playing something of a boxed game like Descent. You can get a bunch of people playing but only smaller subset really own and buy into the game. Why buy it when the other guy has it? One answer with painted wargaming used to be that I'm putting time into making this my own just as the other guy did by all the pre-work to make an army. But now.. instant gratification can lead to a more disposable attitude and the pieces that are played with lose their perceived value, imho.
My concern above is not aimed solely at Mongoose, but instead at the shift in the industry toward pre-painted miniatures lines.
One lesson that should be taken from the BFE experience.
Release painted and un-painted versions (for those who like paint and don't want to pay the high cost for pre-paints.)
To be honest, i wish you ST Evo players all the luck, because i have a feeling your gonna need it (speaking from the BFE experience).
Release painted and un-painted versions (for those who like paint and don't want to pay the high cost for pre-paints.)
To be honest, i wish you ST Evo players all the luck, because i have a feeling your gonna need it (speaking from the BFE experience).
well i was looking forward to SSTevo until i saw the problems with BFevo, and also until i played a game. my god some of the rules just dont make sense or even fun (elite troops need same to kill a target as standard troops but cost more, so may as well go for quantity over quality as more dice = easier kills. and also makes for better shatter point (another odd rule). )
Did you really play BF:Evo, katadder?
I don't mean to sound like a fanboy but I don't think we're playing the same game. I have a PLA force and an EFTF force and the British infantry are much better than the Chinese infantry even if they're outnumbered.
We also play with a lot of terrain, though.
I'm looking forward to SST:Evo. I won't be buying many, if any, of the prepaints as I've got lots painted up to a nice standard already. It will, however, allow me to demo the game more and to get more players and will be able to appeal to people that want prepaints and people that want to paint their own.
Options are a good thing. If done right I could see offering both as catering to many audiences to play the same game and could make it a big success.
I don't mean to sound like a fanboy but I don't think we're playing the same game. I have a PLA force and an EFTF force and the British infantry are much better than the Chinese infantry even if they're outnumbered.
We also play with a lot of terrain, though.
I'm looking forward to SST:Evo. I won't be buying many, if any, of the prepaints as I've got lots painted up to a nice standard already. It will, however, allow me to demo the game more and to get more players and will be able to appeal to people that want prepaints and people that want to paint their own.
Options are a good thing. If done right I could see offering both as catering to many audiences to play the same game and could make it a big success.
CaseyGMU said:
its not the fact some might be better defensively and special abilities but for example if you play MEA you need the same to kill a militia man with your PLA infantry man as an elite soldier from the SAS or recon, so your numbers make alot of differance as its the targets defense that is your roll to hit, not your own skills. and like i said higher numbers gives you a better shatter point too.
"BRAKE! BRAKE! There's a soldier in our tank's way!"katadder said:
Won't be a problem, as we (me and my gaming group) will surely never get into Evo and simply keep the old SST. Why replace a running system with a new one that's rather irrational and all to often just stupid.JayRaider said:
Guys, watching this poll with great interest - by all means encourage other players to participate.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I would not buy into a game that used solely pre-painted models. SST looks good to me and I'd consider it in the future, but not if the proper model likes vanish and are replaced with pre-paints. If I was persuaded to play I'd get the rules and buy models from e-bay.
I don't like pre-painted figures because the same pose has to be used over and over again. (This is also my one complaint about the LAMI.)
One of the reasons I really like the current range of figures is the number of plastic models, allowing each figure to be individual. (I love the pathfinders.) And with components available to mix and match its even better.
My concerns about the paint quality are secondary (as long as they're not as bad as the WotC miniatures). The pre-paints that really put me off are those with shiny finishes.
One of the reasons I really like the current range of figures is the number of plastic models, allowing each figure to be individual. (I love the pathfinders.) And with components available to mix and match its even better.
My concerns about the paint quality are secondary (as long as they're not as bad as the WotC miniatures). The pre-paints that really put me off are those with shiny finishes.
Gauntlet-
Banded Mongoose
I too have no desire or interest in pre-paints. They are too expensive; one of SSTs most competitive aspect is it is much cheaper than the competition's.
I could see prepaints for the air vehicles perhaps, but overall... I don't need it and I don't want it. It would bring in more players to have both of course. I personally feel they should make new models/sculpts for some of the lacking models and produce them and publish their new rules NOW.
The new rules overall feel good to me... that tank issue is interesting but hopefully won't come up too often in SST. Or will be different.
I see the fact that we are getting new models a very good sign. Thats whats needed, constant attention. If we just had new rules the game would pick up again, without the pre-paints. Sell units cards and one sheet rules in a pack for like 5$ or something.
I could see prepaints for the air vehicles perhaps, but overall... I don't need it and I don't want it. It would bring in more players to have both of course. I personally feel they should make new models/sculpts for some of the lacking models and produce them and publish their new rules NOW.
The new rules overall feel good to me... that tank issue is interesting but hopefully won't come up too often in SST. Or will be different.
I see the fact that we are getting new models a very good sign. Thats whats needed, constant attention. If we just had new rules the game would pick up again, without the pre-paints. Sell units cards and one sheet rules in a pack for like 5$ or something.
Now since matt mentioned he is watching this with great interest, I would like to point out a few things.
We are the crowd who decided to stick by SST and the whole EVO thing. Maybe the wait is making us crazy, but I suppose a lot of us are scared. At the end of the day we would like metal and plastic, unpainted to be available.
With regard to prepaints like AT 43, maybe the company should have waited to see how it truned out for Rackham. Now if mongoose's bug annoucement a while back was to put SST classic on hold, make a bunch of sculpts, and refurbish the line in say a years time after sort of taking care of all the production hickups, I would not see a problem.
I like the old school stuff. I told myself I would get into AT43 and prepaint, but never buoght anything outside of the Damocles set. Not saying it was bad but it is not my sort of thing. Looking at my plasma bug I just finished, I can proudly say it will always be mine.
A lot of us are with the company, but guys like us who like the painting simply probably won't buy much stuff. And converting things that are premade, you'd be destroying something colectible right there. Granted we would probably get new stuff alright, bu if SST was left alone, despite having some odd sculpts like Skinnie Slaves & Venerables, we would probably have two extra armies by now, and there is still demand for whites as can be seen with the brutes and fleet landing party.
Also I think doing your own printing facility while you were still sorting out kinks in the prepains did not help, too much too fast.
Not that I am trying to tell you how to run a business, but I believe it is an issue.
Best of luck.
We are the crowd who decided to stick by SST and the whole EVO thing. Maybe the wait is making us crazy, but I suppose a lot of us are scared. At the end of the day we would like metal and plastic, unpainted to be available.
With regard to prepaints like AT 43, maybe the company should have waited to see how it truned out for Rackham. Now if mongoose's bug annoucement a while back was to put SST classic on hold, make a bunch of sculpts, and refurbish the line in say a years time after sort of taking care of all the production hickups, I would not see a problem.
I like the old school stuff. I told myself I would get into AT43 and prepaint, but never buoght anything outside of the Damocles set. Not saying it was bad but it is not my sort of thing. Looking at my plasma bug I just finished, I can proudly say it will always be mine.
A lot of us are with the company, but guys like us who like the painting simply probably won't buy much stuff. And converting things that are premade, you'd be destroying something colectible right there. Granted we would probably get new stuff alright, bu if SST was left alone, despite having some odd sculpts like Skinnie Slaves & Venerables, we would probably have two extra armies by now, and there is still demand for whites as can be seen with the brutes and fleet landing party.
Also I think doing your own printing facility while you were still sorting out kinks in the prepains did not help, too much too fast.
Not that I am trying to tell you how to run a business, but I believe it is an issue.
Best of luck.
Oh, nad could it be that hard to make metals and plastics with the same moulds for hte new stuff?
Also look at the lrod of the rings fiasco. Big licesnse, addressed many people, tonnes got into the hobyby, and then decided that it was not for them.
Sure cool minis and prepaints can attract new short term customers who may not like wargaming, but we like long rule books, good systems, and painting. In the long term old school investors are a better customer base. But these people who buy into prepaints may not even keep playing, and to reach those sort of people, never going t ohappen, as they would probably never set foot in a games shop.
Price is a good thing, but most players I know would not play a game like SST based on teh fact they need to learn a mad set of rules (lazy bums) so having the evo rules, or at least a streamlined version of it will be a help.
Also, those who buy prepaints probably never would be into buying massive armies or playing big games. Given the investment and the amount of people who would actually be new full fledged gamers from the endeavour, there seems to be a deficit from Rackham's direction of action. I did business tudies in school and college, and I tell you, thuogh I habve little actual knowledge frmo a runining a company stance, I can tell you this is a bad idea.
I pray that Starship Troopers Classic will come back, and everything will be alrgiht.
Having prepaints will not fix the company's damaged reputation in stores or get store owners to stock the games, their confidence is shaken, especially with the likes of BFE and the printer facility.
I am not saying stop prepaints, just do not put all your bets on the one horse, starship troopers, as we like the way it was.
Now if on the other hand you got the AVPlicense, and did prepaints with that, and did it as a mass combat wargame, which would rock, that would be more successful.
AVP: movie coming out, auto advertising.
As for AVP say, I will buy at least one of every set that heroclix has out. If it was a proper fuly fledged game like Starship Troopers, I would get armies worth, but since I already have a lot of straship troopers stuff, I woucl not do it with evo. I mean we had an excellent game, and then it got changed. If it was evo from the start, well, we could never miss what we never had. And as for BFE players, they are missing out.
Oh, and I was going to get into BFE, even thuogh I had a Damocles starter set, and befre I rodered I fuond about the hiatus the game had,. Now I will not touch it with a stick. As for prepainted sci fi miniatures, I already have Starship Troopers classic, and the thing that did it for me with BFE was that it was a game that a company did, doing their own books and models, in a modern setting, done like a proper miniature game.
Also look at the lrod of the rings fiasco. Big licesnse, addressed many people, tonnes got into the hobyby, and then decided that it was not for them.
Sure cool minis and prepaints can attract new short term customers who may not like wargaming, but we like long rule books, good systems, and painting. In the long term old school investors are a better customer base. But these people who buy into prepaints may not even keep playing, and to reach those sort of people, never going t ohappen, as they would probably never set foot in a games shop.
Price is a good thing, but most players I know would not play a game like SST based on teh fact they need to learn a mad set of rules (lazy bums) so having the evo rules, or at least a streamlined version of it will be a help.
Also, those who buy prepaints probably never would be into buying massive armies or playing big games. Given the investment and the amount of people who would actually be new full fledged gamers from the endeavour, there seems to be a deficit from Rackham's direction of action. I did business tudies in school and college, and I tell you, thuogh I habve little actual knowledge frmo a runining a company stance, I can tell you this is a bad idea.
I pray that Starship Troopers Classic will come back, and everything will be alrgiht.
Having prepaints will not fix the company's damaged reputation in stores or get store owners to stock the games, their confidence is shaken, especially with the likes of BFE and the printer facility.
I am not saying stop prepaints, just do not put all your bets on the one horse, starship troopers, as we like the way it was.
Now if on the other hand you got the AVPlicense, and did prepaints with that, and did it as a mass combat wargame, which would rock, that would be more successful.
AVP: movie coming out, auto advertising.
As for AVP say, I will buy at least one of every set that heroclix has out. If it was a proper fuly fledged game like Starship Troopers, I would get armies worth, but since I already have a lot of straship troopers stuff, I woucl not do it with evo. I mean we had an excellent game, and then it got changed. If it was evo from the start, well, we could never miss what we never had. And as for BFE players, they are missing out.
Oh, and I was going to get into BFE, even thuogh I had a Damocles starter set, and befre I rodered I fuond about the hiatus the game had,. Now I will not touch it with a stick. As for prepainted sci fi miniatures, I already have Starship Troopers classic, and the thing that did it for me with BFE was that it was a game that a company did, doing their own books and models, in a modern setting, done like a proper miniature game.
He's right, I recognise addressing many of these points to Matt at open days myself.
Anyone noticed Mr.Evil has upped and left?
He is really pissed off about it all.
Just Look at those poll results and think for a minute. I think the game can be improved with new rules and some new minis.
Problem is all the money that has been poured into it will be for naught, but hey, thats the price for experimentation unfortunately.
:?
Anyone noticed Mr.Evil has upped and left?
He is really pissed off about it all.
Just Look at those poll results and think for a minute. I think the game can be improved with new rules and some new minis.
Problem is all the money that has been poured into it will be for naught, but hey, thats the price for experimentation unfortunately.
:?
Doctor Who
Mongoose
Rob_A said:
YEA, LETS LOOK - ACCORDING TO THE RESULTS SO FAR ONLY 27% OF SST FANS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BUY ANY!
