Playtest rules - Narn updates
- Thread starter Foxmeister
- Start date
Greg Smith
Mongoose
It is not fast and manueverable.
It has medium speed. It is moderately maneuverable. It is extremely fast and maneuverable for a warship, granted. And it will run rings around other Narn battle, war and armageddon level ships.
And the Vorchan will make its second turn 1/2" after the G'Vrahn's first.
It has medium speed. It is moderately maneuverable. It is extremely fast and maneuverable for a warship, granted. And it will run rings around other Narn battle, war and armageddon level ships.
And the Vorchan will make its second turn 1/2" after the G'Vrahn's first.
Well, as you say in the Narn fleet it is fast and maneuvreable, overall, for a warship, it is fast and maneuvreable, compared to the ships from many other fleets a lot less so.
Oddly, with it's weapon loadout, it is better employed as a long range sniper, so it doesn't need that speed as much as the ships that need to get their big batteries of guns to bear such as the bin tak. Typical narn thinking eh?
Of Course, The G'Vrahn squadrons very nicely with the var'Nic, two of the narns premier ships to make a rather scary fast attack fleet.
Oddly, with it's weapon loadout, it is better employed as a long range sniper, so it doesn't need that speed as much as the ships that need to get their big batteries of guns to bear such as the bin tak. Typical narn thinking eh?
Of Course, The G'Vrahn squadrons very nicely with the var'Nic, two of the narns premier ships to make a rather scary fast attack fleet.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
stepan.razin said:
3 Raid level ships take down 1 Battle level ship in a single firing turn. You present this as if it were something special. I've seen 1 White Star take an Omega down in a single turn, so I really fail to see your point here.
On average (and I really don't like using averages in this game), 3 Dag'Kars firing just their e-mines at an Apollo are going to get 6 hits from 18 AD, and cause 16 damage. When you factor in the SL, that's 8 per turn . Whilst you have the potential to have more than one ship in the blast area, in my experience any opponent worth his salt keeps his ships (and fighters) spread well apart when facing an e-mine armed enemy.
Yes, they do have the potential to cause 54 damage if everything hit, there were no bulkheads, and there were no other considerations (e.g. CBD) , but that's not particularly likely now is it?
In my experience, it is the Dag'Kars Precise Ion torps that are more likely to cause the larger ships real trouble. The only exception to this is the bonus that an e-mine essentially gives you towards breaking stealth.
Regards,
Dave
Cavalier1645 said:
You really need to look at the fleet list book again. Try flying early EA and take some Tethys. The Beamed armed and Missle armed Tethys are much nastier than the Sho'Kos.
BTW, NEVER, EVER under estimate the power of the Hyperion, espeicially with the new Track That Target SA. Now you get to get both of your beams on target on a much higher percentage of the time.
EA Ships with 2/45s
Hermes - Speed 12 Too
Tethys
Artemis
Hyperion and Varrients
Olympus and Varrients
Oracle
Myrmidon
Chronos
Delphi
Marathon
Hardly a concern for finding maneuverable ships.
Dave
Cavalier1645 said:
at 5pt raid its not likely you will have a warlock. also at that level narn tend to outnumber crusade EAs fighters as almost every narn skirmish ship comes with a fighter whilst the EA dont get them until raid and then apart from the explorer only 1 each. which against the explorer you can balance the T'rann to keep the narn fighters high.
its interesting fights between EA and narn, I think with the new SA the narn have gained the advantage as all the long range fighting is done with beams where the EA interceptors are worthless.
I have not read all of this thread to i apologize if this has been surgested before but how a bout a narn special action which alows them to save crits by spending crew ,at a cost of 1 crew per point of crit location role would benifit the large ships but not the small ones callit some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved
stepan.razin
Mongoose
Foxmeister said:
That was a reply to someone who stated that a Dagkar will do 4-6 damage.. And no, in my experience 3 Raid choice rarely take out 1 battle in 1 shooting barrage. There is no runaway beam roll here just "weak" 18 TD AP and 12 SAP P attack dice. We are discussing if Narn possess good primary weapons or not. I am sure that 1 AD of TD beam has sometime somewhere take out a Victory. I am sure someone here can calculate the odds of that and that number is going to be greater the 0%
stepan.razin
Mongoose
greenboy said:
Why not a SA like that for all fleets? Something like dedicate a number of crew to help out with damage control roll, for every crew (or 2 or 3) you get a +1 to the repair roll. Could represent a number of crew heroically sacrificing their lives to save ships.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
stepan.razin said:
The poster your are referring to was talking specifically about the damage output of an e-mine in response to your statement about e-mines, and your reply was also specifically talking about e-mines and how 3 Dag'Kars took down an Apollo rather implying that is was the e-mines that were responsible. Chances are that what killed the Apollo were the crits from the Precise ion torps.
Regards,
Dave
stepan.razin
Mongoose
Davesaint said:
I may be wrong, but why do you think you can field a Marathon with an Oracle? Artemis?. If you take a marathon you loose the ability to take most of the ships listed, A marathon will never be able to fire its beam at a valuable Narnship for at least 2 turns. Also, Tethys may have better firepower, but Shokos will stick around much long performing what they were bought for... init sinking.
Perhaps to be fair you should write down the Narn ships that can do 2/45 turns. Maybe make an EA fleet to fight the Narn. EA Early may have a chance to outmaneuver the Narn, but TA and Crusade have 0 chance.
stepan.razin
Mongoose
Foxmeister said:
Yes, both the mines and missiles did it... Dont remember exact numbers but there was only 1 crit (6 5). and the emines did very well.
stepan.razin said:
By age -
Early EA
Tethys(2x1 patrol)
Hermes(patrol)
Artemis and Varrients(Skirmish)
Olympus and Varrients(Skirmish)
Hyperion and Varrients(raid/Skirmish)
oracle(Skirmish)
Third Age -
Hyperion and Varrients(Assult)(Raid/Skirmish)
Hermes(patrol)
Olympus(railgun and missle)(skirmish)
Artemis Heavy(Skirmish)
Oracle(Skirmish)
Crusade
Myrmadon(patrol)
Chronos(skirmish)
Hyperion and Varrients(Assult)(Raid/Skirmish)
Delphi(Raid)
Marathon(Battle
Narn -
Sho'Kos and Varrinets(2x1 Patrol
Sho'Kar(Skirmish)
Thentus(Skirmish)
T'Rakk(Skirmish
G'Karith(Raid)
G'Sten(Raid)
Var'Nic(Raid)
G'Vrahn(War)
Every other hull is 1/45
So where is this maneuver advantage for the Narn again, especially since in many of the Narn hulls, the rear arced guns are lacking?
Dave
stepan.razin
Mongoose
Davesaint said:
EA Early vs Narn - About the same Manuevering.
EA TA vs Narn - advantage Narn
EA Cr vs Narn - advantage Narn.
A. With the exception of Narn vs Early Age, Narn have more ships with equivalent movement capability and the Narn will take out Early EA's init sinks a lot faster then the other way around .
B. In may EA hulls (or most fleets), rear guns are lacking. Besides 2/45 is easy enough to maneuver around.
stepan.razin said:
I have never had an issue with being out maneuvered by the Narn when playing 3rd Age EA. I guess you forgot all of those turreted Rail Guns and Missle racks on the Olympus, or the all around firepower on the Artemis, or the Aft Borsight beams on the Hyperion and for that matter the Omega.
If you lack rear firepower in an EA fleet, you have chosen your fleet very poorly.
Dave
true, i also noticed the hermes is missing from the EA crusade fleet listing for 2/45.
and the EA crusade are also getting some chronos variants with new broadsides on the (heavy) missile variant.
EA may not have all round firepower but they do have good broadsides and also some rear boresights.
and the EA crusade are also getting some chronos variants with new broadsides on the (heavy) missile variant.
EA may not have all round firepower but they do have good broadsides and also some rear boresights.
stepan.razin
Mongoose
Davesaint said:
By the way, if your Omega could ever line up its beam on the GVarn or some other high priority Narn ship, then your opponent has chosen his fleet poorly. In fact I no longer buy Marathons against the Narn, there are cheaper ways of taking out skirmish level ships.
Are you changing the topic to "is EA maneuverable enough"? I will concede that the Narn aren't going to outmaneuver EA. If you recall, the topic of this is if the Narn are at a maneuvering disadvantage. Concider this kind of litmus test:
1. Can a bulk of any EA fleet get into position that the Narn cannot fire at them? I am leaning towards NO.
2. Will the Narn player have good EA targets for his beam weapons? most likely.
Of course if they change the 2 for 1 rules in the future, then the Narn players are going to have to worry.
But EA can also two for one... so why would that matter?
It seems your changing topics... your talking about sinking, not maneuver. Buying down to avoid the use of boresights by your enemy on worthwhile targets does hurt Crusade EA more than most, as not many folks want to buy into the Hermes.
There is no reason why an EA force be out maneuvered by the Narn. Out sinked depends on era to a limited degree.
- side note on fleet choice, using a battle level ship to get clean kills on skirmish isn't so bad, as it usually takes twice the FAP to get clean kills reliably. If the marathons are just hitting skirmish but not killing them that's more of an issue.
Ripple
It seems your changing topics... your talking about sinking, not maneuver. Buying down to avoid the use of boresights by your enemy on worthwhile targets does hurt Crusade EA more than most, as not many folks want to buy into the Hermes.
There is no reason why an EA force be out maneuvered by the Narn. Out sinked depends on era to a limited degree.
- side note on fleet choice, using a battle level ship to get clean kills on skirmish isn't so bad, as it usually takes twice the FAP to get clean kills reliably. If the marathons are just hitting skirmish but not killing them that's more of an issue.
Ripple
