Playtest rules: FAP breakdown

[No. 1 Bear]

No, there is no change to buying up, so an Armageddon ship cost 4 battle points.

So if big ships were at such a disadvantage why oh why make it so expensive to buy up. Thats crazy. Just reverse the current one and use that for going up as well, it would make things interesting and easier to get big ships into games.

 

[Burger]

No, there is no change to buying up, so an Armageddon ship cost 4 battle points.

So if big ships were at such a disadvantage why oh why make it so expensive to buy up. Thats crazy. Just reverse the current one and use that for going up as well, it would make things interesting and easier to get big ships into games.

Thats what I suggested a while back, but with the Armageddon splits. 2/3/6/12, both upwards and downwards. I'd love to use War level ships in a 5pt Raid, but it currently just isn't viable.

 

[Scipio]

No, there is no change to buying up, so an Armageddon ship cost 4 battle points.

So if big ships were at such a disadvantage why oh why make it so expensive to buy up. Thats crazy. Just reverse the current one and use that for going up as well, it would make things interesting and easier to get big ships into games.

Thats what I suggested a while back, but with the Armageddon splits. 2/3/6/12, both upwards and downwards. I'd love to use War level ships in a 5pt Raid, but it currently just isn't viable.

Yes it would be much more variety in the fleets (especially some) if this were possible.

 

[Triggy]

We tried this FAP breakdown for buying up and it was pretty overpowered in every game we played. The "perfect" breakdown would be somewhere around 3.4-3.6 points for a War PL ship and for 3 FAPs you just get a ship too cheaply.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

I can see where you are coming from but it does seem a bit bad that big ships are again penalised. Maybe if a war ship had an escort party of some fighters or something this would balance out. But as burger said its not viable.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The whole point that you get punished more the further away you go from the stated level anyway.
Buying up should be ineffiecient under the stated ideal that ships involved in a battle should mainly be of approximately the same PL as the battle. So far the FAP table has done a pretty good job of this. The problem so far has been that buying down hasn't been inefficient, so this is the part of the table that's needed changing.

 

[Tolwyn]

Mhm, the new fap chart looks ok to me (even if it is again a new one).

The great problem I see now is that the entire Drazi fleet list needs to be rebalanced with regards to the new chart as they largely deepend on swarms of smaller ships.

 

[CZuschlag]

We're working on the right now. The new special actions and Track That Target, if tuned to the Drazi, might achieve just that.

 

[Hindsight]

In most wargames that I have played, whoever rolls the most dice wins. I don't care how many two up saves you have, once you roll enough saves, even the mightiest fall. So why isn't more effort put into balancing the tiers? Why are four White Stars the best War level ship? Why does the game favor quantity over quality?

Can we not just improve the bigger ships, to make them more desirable? Is nerfing the smaller ships the only way to give the big boys a buff?

 

[tschuma]

"You can keep splitting a Fleet Allocation Point as many times as you like, but you may only ever split one of these smaller Fleet Allocation Points down further."

That statement started a heated discussion last Friday night. Because it states in the begining You can keep splitting a Fleet Action Point asn many times as you like, the other players thought you could split all the points down. Please keep in mind that the one guy is a Contract Lawyer so will piick things apart. I informed thme that the chart was the only way you could breakdown the points, but they would not listen. I hope that by next Friday this will be cleared up.

When the rules are written, please just print the chart, it makes it much clearer and cleaner.

Oh, I like the new breakdown also.

tschuma

 

[Burger]

Please keep in mind that the one guy is a Contract Lawyer so will piick things apart. I informed thme that the chart was the only way you could breakdown the points, but they would not listen.

It says it in black and white, that the charts are the only ways you can split a point. Time to break out the lawyer jokes.

 

[Foxmeister]

Why are four White Stars the best War level ship? Why does the game favor quantity over quality?

Bear in mind that with the new playtest splits, 1 War point would only buy you 3 White Stars.

However, the main reason that the game favours quantity over quality, is the critical table. Even at 3 WS per War point, you effectively have 3 times the protection against the most serious critical effects by buying down than you do buying the larger ship.

Given any single critical hit, an Armageddon level ship is just as likely to go adrift as a Patrol level ship. If you take something like a White Star, a -4 speed crit barely holds the ship back whereas the same crit on an Adira or a Ka'Bin'Tak will send it adrift.

This is the core of the issue in my opinion, and I seriously hope that P&P introduces some kind of "critical save" or redundancy for larger ships so this imbalance is addressed.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Hindsight]

I think you just hit the nail on the head. How do we accomplish what you say, in game terms. How would you word a Critical Immunity, for larger ships? Structure points?

I have only played at the raid level myself, so my White Stars thrive, but as I buy more and more ships, I'm going to want to play at the War and maybe even Armageddon levels with the big boys. I'd like to know that throughout this process, we did what we could to make those viable.

 

[Prophaniti]

You could use a Lord of the Rings style 'fate point' mechanic. It's a limited number of save attempts per game. So you might allow a battle level ship 3 4+ saves against criticals per game. It might have to be the first three or you might say choose. I'd definitely only allow one attempt per critical, although that could be different too.

New FAP look ok, my club willl be doing some playtesting next monday.

 

[skavendan]

I save against crits would make the big ships far more resiliant.

 

[Foxmeister]

I think you just hit the nail on the head. How do we accomplish what you say, in game terms. How would you word a Critical Immunity, for larger ships? Structure points?

Do a forum search for Redundancy, and you'll turn up a whole raft of alternatives that have been tossed around.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Tolwyn]

Idon't think that new SA's and rules will help the Drazi, some changes to the ships might be good as well.

With regard to larger ships: Please make them wortth taking and no longer promote buying down 8)

 

[Da Boss]

Good job every race has a ship at every PL - oh wait thats not the case is it?

 

[Tolwyn]

I simply dislike the idea that it is always favourable to buy FAP down.

Smaller ships have more AD, more Damage and Crew etc. compared to a larger ship.