Playing D&D - Conan Style!
- Thread starter Malcadon
- Start date
Oops! Did I forget to link "Basti" to Crocodile Games? Oh well! Thanks for reminding me. 
When I saw Wargods of Ægyptus for the first time, I loved it and I got some Basti minis. To bad I can't find any Wargods gamers where I live. Oh well! I found some use of them after all! They are bigger then my usual set of miniatures (Reaper & Foundry), but it workout as the Were-beasts in my games are Large.
The Yuan-Ti always seemed right for an Egyptian styled setting. I always like the idea of were-feline car-worshipers (I have an affinity for cats, and one of my players love to play this type of character). I dont see how this is wrong at all, as were-beasts are found in the Conan rule-book, and the point of RPGs is to have fun!
When I saw Wargods of Ægyptus for the first time, I loved it and I got some Basti minis. To bad I can't find any Wargods gamers where I live. Oh well! I found some use of them after all! They are bigger then my usual set of miniatures (Reaper & Foundry), but it workout as the Were-beasts in my games are Large.
The Yuan-Ti always seemed right for an Egyptian styled setting. I always like the idea of were-feline car-worshipers (I have an affinity for cats, and one of my players love to play this type of character). I dont see how this is wrong at all, as were-beasts are found in the Conan rule-book, and the point of RPGs is to have fun!
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
Oh yeah. As you may remember, I chose not to play in Hyboria proper, but a kind of homebrew world, for the sake of streamlining the setting and tech/culture levels. If Hyboria is our world 20.000 years (or whatever) in the past, my homebrew is our world 20.000 years in the future - so it's not too different (history repeats itself).
There's nothing wrong with introducing D&D monsters; I do the same, although I usually gut their powers to something more compatible with the Conan feeling. I also use a few other D&D sources like Traps & Treachery. But all the time I take care not to set precedence for a magic power creep.
There's nothing wrong with introducing D&D monsters; I do the same, although I usually gut their powers to something more compatible with the Conan feeling. I also use a few other D&D sources like Traps & Treachery. But all the time I take care not to set precedence for a magic power creep.
Do people really like this adventure? I actually bought it a year or so back with the intent of running it with Conan but only managed to read halfway through it before throwing it away in disgust. As I recall, I thought it had an extremely contrived plot and a number of very harsh encounters that totally rubbed me the wrong way. Parts of it might be salvageable, though, maybe I should give it another try.Malcadon said:
I had no problem with it as I dont take conversions at face value, and I just worked my around everything. I liked Necropolis because it had lots of humans (even if the art shows elves, dwarves & halfling). I also ignored most of the odd monsters. I did use that Demon Lord as MM filler.Trodax said:
Here is some of the changes I made. As an example lets look at the Temple of Set. I avoided using the big stone sphinxes at the entrance as that was to obvious. But I added some Caryatid Columns (from Tome of Horrors) at the front of the building instead. In the Sanctuary of Sacrifice, there was a little more then 14 worshipers. The shadow demons are still there! The woman that is holding a chandelier down is naked and being flogged. The chandelier is not as heavy as was in the book, but she is still hard press to keep it up. Guards and priests restinf & sleeping in their quarters are not armored and are armed with daggers or sidearms (it always vexed me how men in their sleeping quarters are NPCs are always dressed for battle). The statue of the beautiful woman is still the same beautiful woman, but she has no whiskers and as no possessions (not even clothing). If you make her human again and return her to the Temple of Bast, you will be richly reworded!!! At the Cells, I replace to Glabrezu with a Yuan-Ti half-blood. Otherwise, is still the same scenario.
Trodax said:
I actually got hold of this way back when it was a module for the Dangerous Journeys system (and I also have the d20 conversion), but I have never gotten the time/opportunity to run it. I do think it has potential if you trim down the monster and magic levels; there are lots of cool locations even though it is a bit of a railroad as written.
Maybe I should put it on my list of conversions...
- thulsa
Aholibamah
Mongoose
One thing I do to make D&D a little more grim is to remove a lot of the intelligent races and make the ones remaining more mysterious. In my setting it is still very humanocentric, so the only pc types allowed are humans. Friendly demihuman races exist but I've made them more mythologically influenced, so that encounters with them are unusual and a little unsettling even when friendly. Magic exists but people who have magical weapons are on the level with Greek or Norse heroes, it's the stuff of legend come to life.
My players are recently finding that this has it's good and bad points. First of all, the more supernatural villains covet what they have. Secondly, normal people either are a little afraid of them and intrigue around them or else expect them to solve all their problems. A couple of games ago they were almost drowned in petititions.
I've given the Isle of Dread adventure path a more Conan type feel by making it more focused on a dying civilization surrounded by prehistoric animals than a D&D setting with dinosaurs. There are as we all know a number of 'Aztec' type settings in Conan, so I'm borrowing very much from that as well.
Finally I tend to make spellcasters more rare. Not all priests can cast spells, not all wizards are truly powerful. This is the one serious sticking point when it comes to the difference though--in Conan I've noticed that all powerful spellcasters are evil, sinister and more like Lovecraftian cultists than like say Gandalf.
My players are recently finding that this has it's good and bad points. First of all, the more supernatural villains covet what they have. Secondly, normal people either are a little afraid of them and intrigue around them or else expect them to solve all their problems. A couple of games ago they were almost drowned in petititions.
I've given the Isle of Dread adventure path a more Conan type feel by making it more focused on a dying civilization surrounded by prehistoric animals than a D&D setting with dinosaurs. There are as we all know a number of 'Aztec' type settings in Conan, so I'm borrowing very much from that as well.
Finally I tend to make spellcasters more rare. Not all priests can cast spells, not all wizards are truly powerful. This is the one serious sticking point when it comes to the difference though--in Conan I've noticed that all powerful spellcasters are evil, sinister and more like Lovecraftian cultists than like say Gandalf.
therion666
Mongoose
I agree, I enjoyed AD&D and 1st edition but 3rd edition has got a lot to offer just fell down on a few points. Conan address a number of those points especially the AC thing. I like the Parrying and Dodging, after all if a 30 foot long Dragon weighing about the same amount as a tank hits you with a Claw, you cannot parry it!!! You have to Dodge, the same with a Giant who's something like 20ft tall, no-one is strong enough to do that.
The main failure in D&D 3rd ed is the whole 'you need to kill things to earn XP, you need loads of money to improve your equipment and finally you need to get your character loaded up with magical gear or you can't face off with the creatures against you'.
In the game im running I've steared the game toward the PC's being rewarded for doing intelligent things and roleplaying, same with money. Monsters don't have a hoard of cash so killing them is purely an act of bravado which will give renoun and good will from the local populous who are being harrassed by said creature.
It's working well so far and i've run about eight sessions and a year of the game world.
The main failure in D&D 3rd ed is the whole 'you need to kill things to earn XP, you need loads of money to improve your equipment and finally you need to get your character loaded up with magical gear or you can't face off with the creatures against you'.
In the game im running I've steared the game toward the PC's being rewarded for doing intelligent things and roleplaying, same with money. Monsters don't have a hoard of cash so killing them is purely an act of bravado which will give renoun and good will from the local populous who are being harrassed by said creature.
It's working well so far and i've run about eight sessions and a year of the game world.
rabindranath72
Mongoose
AC was not about "harder to be hit" but "harder to be damaged". The 1e DMG explains the topic quite well.Spectator said:
therion666
Mongoose
The description for D&D armor does describe it well but in practice a man wearing chain armor who is little skilled in combat would get hurt a great deal quicker than a skilled warrior.
Example-two people one 1st level commoner a second a 15th level fighter, using the 3rd edition AC system would both be a DC of 15 if wearing chainmail. They are exactly the same!!! In the 3rd edition a 15th level warrior could apply expertise but would require a feat to do so AND take a drop in skill!!
The reality is the more skilled warrior would be diffcult to hit if attacked by a 1st level warrior and the peasant would be easy and either the damage from the blow is stopped by any armor worn if a hit landed or would be diminished.
The long and short is the conan system represents this nicely, especially when rounded of with the AP values of weapons.
Example-two people one 1st level commoner a second a 15th level fighter, using the 3rd edition AC system would both be a DC of 15 if wearing chainmail. They are exactly the same!!! In the 3rd edition a 15th level warrior could apply expertise but would require a feat to do so AND take a drop in skill!!
The reality is the more skilled warrior would be diffcult to hit if attacked by a 1st level warrior and the peasant would be easy and either the damage from the blow is stopped by any armor worn if a hit landed or would be diminished.
The long and short is the conan system represents this nicely, especially when rounded of with the AP values of weapons.
Thats a big part of what hit points are for. The first level commoner and the level 15 fighter are nothing like the same, even in the same armour. Get one good hit on the commoner, down he goes. The 15th level fighter can roll with blows and make last minute parries and knows how to conserve his strength enough to be a much,much harder opponent to take down. Remember he gets full hit dice at all levels.
While a great many D&D rules seem stupid in isolation and in detail, its still popular because its quick and it works. The end result is still that the more experience fighter is much harder to take down.
The difference is in the feel of the games and the mechanics of both match the way they are "meant" to be played. For on a mighty thewed Barbarian fighting Men and the odd Demon, the Other a party armed to the teeth with flaming sword, magical staffs and potions for everything fighting huge Dragons and hordes of Orks.
IMHO, they both work just fine but have different feels that should be used to match what the players and DM want to play...
While a great many D&D rules seem stupid in isolation and in detail, its still popular because its quick and it works. The end result is still that the more experience fighter is much harder to take down.
The difference is in the feel of the games and the mechanics of both match the way they are "meant" to be played. For on a mighty thewed Barbarian fighting Men and the odd Demon, the Other a party armed to the teeth with flaming sword, magical staffs and potions for everything fighting huge Dragons and hordes of Orks.
IMHO, they both work just fine but have different feels that should be used to match what the players and DM want to play...
Malcadon said:
Just a question, have you considered playing Castles and Crusades? It's a d20-style system being designed by some of the old TSR guys. I personally prefer Conan over everything that's come along, but you might really enjoy it. I know a couple of guys over at the wizards forums really prefer it as it's more like AD&D in style.
arderkrag said:
Thanks for telling me about it. I did not know about the game in till I looked it up after reading you post (I think I had seen the name before, but with all the retro-clones out and about its hard to keep track :roll
. It looks vary interesting, is like a 3rd ed Lite with a twist of AD&D. I see why a Grognard gamers would embrace this game like a long lost lover. I think I might look in to it later, but right now I got a lot on my plate.Agreed, thanks for telling me about Castles and Crusaders, it really does a great job of re-emphasizing the action and de-emphazing the rules lawyers. I love its concept and simplicity. I have since house ruled some stuff to make it fit more into the Conan campaign!
Thanks for turning me onto to it!
Thanks for turning me onto to it!
rabindranath72
Mongoose
Here is what I came up with, to play Conan with my old D&D Mentzer boxed sets. I guess it would work with C&C, too.
Classic D&D Hyborian Age setting guidelines
Background
At character creation the cultural background must be chosen.
Barbaric: reduce by 1 the chance of being surprised. The lowest ability score must be mental.
Civilised: add 1 to all reaction checks. The lowest ability score must be physical.
Classes
The Fighter
As standard D&D fighter, with the following special ability:
Combat specialization: at 2nd level fighter characters can choose a weapon with which they gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls. They must choose whether this weapon is used mounted (cavalry) or on foot (infantry).
The Thief
As standard D&D thief, with the following special ability:
Eyes of the cat: at 2nd level thieves “have eyes like a cat”. They gain infravision 60’.
The Noble
Primary requisite: Charisma
Hit dice: d6
Armour: all
Weapons: as Thief
Saving throws: as Cleric
Attacks: as Cleric
XP table: as Cleric
Special abilities:
Wealth: the character starts with 200 sp (besides the normal allotment), and he receives this sum every year, provided he does not squander the money publicly.
Rally: retainers have a +1 to their morale score.
Leadership: at 4th level nobles double the number of retainers they can have for their charisma.
Diplomacy: nobles add +1 to any reaction checks.
Do you know who I am?: at 9th level (name level) characters who may fear the noble's reprisal must make a saving throw vs. spells to take action against the noble.
The Scholar
Primary requisite: Intelligence
Hit dice: d4
Armour: none
Weapons: dagger, blowgun, net, whip, staff, mace, sling, club, short bow, spear, javelin
Saving throws: as Magic-User
Attacks: as Magic-User
XP table: as Magic-User
Special abilities:
Knowledge is power: this ability refers to knowledge of ancient history, arcana, artifacts, fables, lost lore, mysteries, occult and relics. It assures full literacy and numeracy. This skill gives one a range of knowledge in fields of study that others are not likely to know. It allows the character to know (or at least know where to go to learn) about a particular subject or issue related to the above mentioned subjects. It also increases the character’s chances of locating items of interest in lost tombs, books in libraries, or other related activities.
The percentage chance of success follows the progression of the Thief's Hear Noise ability. If the result of the check is larger than double the chance of success, the information gained is completely wrong and misleading.
Decipher script: as 4th level Thief.
Spells: scholars can cast spells. The Magic-User table gives the number of spells which can be cast each day for each level, although no spell memorisation is necessary. Scholars do not need spell books, although these can be used as sources to learn new spells. Scholars start with one sorcery style (and basic spell) at 1st level. At 2nd level they gain another sorcery style and another basic spell. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, they gain another sorcery style and related basic spell. From 3rd level onward, they gain one advanced spell per level.
Ancient language: scholars know one ancient language of their choice.
I assigned levels to the spells in the d20 Conan book and Scrolls of Skelos, and I am converting them. Here is the list of spells and spell levels:
CONAN RPG: SPELLS BY STYLE AND LEVEL
Counterspells
Warding (B) 1
Greater Warding 4
Incantation of Amalric's Witchman 1
Rune of Jhebbal Sag 2
Master Warding 6
Curses
Lesser Ill-fortune (B) 1
Awful Rite of the Were-beast 6
Curse of Yzil 4
Dance of the Changing Serpent 4
Draw forth the Soul 6
Gelid Bones 2
Greater Ill-fortune 3
Ill-fortune 1
Doom of the Doll 6
Invocation of Xuthalla 6
Shrinking Doom 5
Divination
Astrological Prediction (B) 1
Dream of Wisdom 4
Mind Reading 3
Psychometry 1
Sorcerous News 5
Greater Sorcerous News 6
Visions 3
Visions of Torment & Enlight. 5
Projection 6
Hypnotism
Entrance (B) 1
Dance of the Cobras 3
Dominatio n 3
Dread Serpent 4
Hypnotic Suggestion 2
Mass-hypnotic Suggestion 5
Ranged Hypnotism 5
Savage Beast 3
Boundary 6
Dance of Atali 6
Enslave 4
Illusion 5
Swell 4
Torment 1
Voice of Power 6
Voice of Power, Greater 7
Nature Magic
Summon Beast (B) 1
Animal Ally 2
Children of the Night 3
Greater Summon Beast 1
Sorcerous Garden 5
Nature Magic (continued)
Bones of Life 6
Control Magical Beast 4
Control Monstrous Humanoid 5
Fruit of Air 7
Necromancy
Raise Corpse (B) 2
Agonising Doom 6
Black Plague* 6
Greater Black Plague* 7
Death Touch 5
Draw Forth the Heart 6
Oriental Magic
Calm of the Adept (B) 1
Darting Serpent 2
Shape-shifter 6
Warrior Trance 2
Yimsha’s Carpet 6
Prestidigitation
Conjuring (B) 1
Burst Barrier 2
Telekinesis 2
Telekinesis, Greater 2
Animate Statue 3
Animate Swords 2
Magic Builder 5
Summonings
Master Words and Signs (B) 6
Demonic Pact (B) 1
Demonic Pact, Greater* 6
Summon Demon* 4
Summon Elemental* 6
Banish Outsider 6
Bind Demon 7
Form Demon 6
Immortality
Witch’s Vigour* 4
Eternal Youth* 5
Life Drain 6
Unnatural Strength* 6
Vampire Transformation* 6
Cosmic
The Time is Right* 6
The Stars are Right* 7
B = Basic spell
* = potential runaway magic
Classic D&D Hyborian Age setting guidelines
Background
At character creation the cultural background must be chosen.
Barbaric: reduce by 1 the chance of being surprised. The lowest ability score must be mental.
Civilised: add 1 to all reaction checks. The lowest ability score must be physical.
Classes
The Fighter
As standard D&D fighter, with the following special ability:
Combat specialization: at 2nd level fighter characters can choose a weapon with which they gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls. They must choose whether this weapon is used mounted (cavalry) or on foot (infantry).
The Thief
As standard D&D thief, with the following special ability:
Eyes of the cat: at 2nd level thieves “have eyes like a cat”. They gain infravision 60’.
The Noble
Primary requisite: Charisma
Hit dice: d6
Armour: all
Weapons: as Thief
Saving throws: as Cleric
Attacks: as Cleric
XP table: as Cleric
Special abilities:
Wealth: the character starts with 200 sp (besides the normal allotment), and he receives this sum every year, provided he does not squander the money publicly.
Rally: retainers have a +1 to their morale score.
Leadership: at 4th level nobles double the number of retainers they can have for their charisma.
Diplomacy: nobles add +1 to any reaction checks.
Do you know who I am?: at 9th level (name level) characters who may fear the noble's reprisal must make a saving throw vs. spells to take action against the noble.
The Scholar
Primary requisite: Intelligence
Hit dice: d4
Armour: none
Weapons: dagger, blowgun, net, whip, staff, mace, sling, club, short bow, spear, javelin
Saving throws: as Magic-User
Attacks: as Magic-User
XP table: as Magic-User
Special abilities:
Knowledge is power: this ability refers to knowledge of ancient history, arcana, artifacts, fables, lost lore, mysteries, occult and relics. It assures full literacy and numeracy. This skill gives one a range of knowledge in fields of study that others are not likely to know. It allows the character to know (or at least know where to go to learn) about a particular subject or issue related to the above mentioned subjects. It also increases the character’s chances of locating items of interest in lost tombs, books in libraries, or other related activities.
The percentage chance of success follows the progression of the Thief's Hear Noise ability. If the result of the check is larger than double the chance of success, the information gained is completely wrong and misleading.
Decipher script: as 4th level Thief.
Spells: scholars can cast spells. The Magic-User table gives the number of spells which can be cast each day for each level, although no spell memorisation is necessary. Scholars do not need spell books, although these can be used as sources to learn new spells. Scholars start with one sorcery style (and basic spell) at 1st level. At 2nd level they gain another sorcery style and another basic spell. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, they gain another sorcery style and related basic spell. From 3rd level onward, they gain one advanced spell per level.
Ancient language: scholars know one ancient language of their choice.
I assigned levels to the spells in the d20 Conan book and Scrolls of Skelos, and I am converting them. Here is the list of spells and spell levels:
CONAN RPG: SPELLS BY STYLE AND LEVEL
Counterspells
Warding (B) 1
Greater Warding 4
Incantation of Amalric's Witchman 1
Rune of Jhebbal Sag 2
Master Warding 6
Curses
Lesser Ill-fortune (B) 1
Awful Rite of the Were-beast 6
Curse of Yzil 4
Dance of the Changing Serpent 4
Draw forth the Soul 6
Gelid Bones 2
Greater Ill-fortune 3
Ill-fortune 1
Doom of the Doll 6
Invocation of Xuthalla 6
Shrinking Doom 5
Divination
Astrological Prediction (B) 1
Dream of Wisdom 4
Mind Reading 3
Psychometry 1
Sorcerous News 5
Greater Sorcerous News 6
Visions 3
Visions of Torment & Enlight. 5
Projection 6
Hypnotism
Entrance (B) 1
Dance of the Cobras 3
Dominatio n 3
Dread Serpent 4
Hypnotic Suggestion 2
Mass-hypnotic Suggestion 5
Ranged Hypnotism 5
Savage Beast 3
Boundary 6
Dance of Atali 6
Enslave 4
Illusion 5
Swell 4
Torment 1
Voice of Power 6
Voice of Power, Greater 7
Nature Magic
Summon Beast (B) 1
Animal Ally 2
Children of the Night 3
Greater Summon Beast 1
Sorcerous Garden 5
Nature Magic (continued)
Bones of Life 6
Control Magical Beast 4
Control Monstrous Humanoid 5
Fruit of Air 7
Necromancy
Raise Corpse (B) 2
Agonising Doom 6
Black Plague* 6
Greater Black Plague* 7
Death Touch 5
Draw Forth the Heart 6
Oriental Magic
Calm of the Adept (B) 1
Darting Serpent 2
Shape-shifter 6
Warrior Trance 2
Yimsha’s Carpet 6
Prestidigitation
Conjuring (B) 1
Burst Barrier 2
Telekinesis 2
Telekinesis, Greater 2
Animate Statue 3
Animate Swords 2
Magic Builder 5
Summonings
Master Words and Signs (B) 6
Demonic Pact (B) 1
Demonic Pact, Greater* 6
Summon Demon* 4
Summon Elemental* 6
Banish Outsider 6
Bind Demon 7
Form Demon 6
Immortality
Witch’s Vigour* 4
Eternal Youth* 5
Life Drain 6
Unnatural Strength* 6
Vampire Transformation* 6
Cosmic
The Time is Right* 6
The Stars are Right* 7
B = Basic spell
* = potential runaway magic
Seems cool, except a civilised Noble with 18 Chr will never be attacked if there is any chance of a negotiation, sice the lowest roll they can get is 2 plus 2 for chr, plus 1 civilised, plus 1 noble, 6, which is enough to bump up to leave or friendly in every case.
18's are increadibly rare, granted, but I think you need to lose a plus somewhere to stop the auto effect.
18's are increadibly rare, granted, but I think you need to lose a plus somewhere to stop the auto effect.
rabindranath72
Mongoose
thanks for the feedback!Tathlum said:
Actually, penalties are always possible, either because the enemy is particularly belligerent, or because of difference in languages (btb, -2).
And as you say, a Noble with charisma 18 is extremely rare in D&D, and it would make sense that they have a large impact.
Cheers,
Antonio
Well thought out Rabid!
I basically went to the DnD magic system, and did not use the Mongoose spells. I instituted a spell point system and made every spellcaster either a druid or a sorcerer.
I have not run a campaign yet, any 1 test run, however every one thorughly enjoyed the faster pace, the less detail paid to the details and rules and the fact that the 6 hor session was able to have 6 combat sessions for PCs and the game moved along very quickly.
When was the last time you had morre than two combat sessions that took less than 15 minutes each?
Obviously a low/nin existant magic setting is critical.
Humans being the main foe with a demon very seldoimly thrown in.
I basically went to the DnD magic system, and did not use the Mongoose spells. I instituted a spell point system and made every spellcaster either a druid or a sorcerer.
I have not run a campaign yet, any 1 test run, however every one thorughly enjoyed the faster pace, the less detail paid to the details and rules and the fact that the 6 hor session was able to have 6 combat sessions for PCs and the game moved along very quickly.
When was the last time you had morre than two combat sessions that took less than 15 minutes each?
Obviously a low/nin existant magic setting is critical.
Humans being the main foe with a demon very seldoimly thrown in.
rabindranath72
Mongoose
Thanks for the kind words!Spectator said:
Quite interesting you went the opposite direction; I used mongoose's spells but used the spellcasting system of classic D&D.
In a previous version, I used AD&D 1e, and ruled that sorcerers who where priests where actually clerics. Sorcerers of nature gods (like Jhebbal Sag and its pantheon) were druids. Sorcerers from Kithai, Hyrkania, Vendhya and other eastern countries were Illusionists. Western sorcerers were magic-users.
I also restricted the spell lists (taking as examples the spells in the TSR CB Conan module series). Things worked out quite well. But this time, I wanted to experiment with a yet simpler system, and use the spells in the d20 Conan book; I love the ideas therein, and it is a shame not to use them in some form.
There is absolutely no comparison in terms of speed and flexibility of old D&D w.r.t. Conan d20. You can run a combat in 5 minutes, and keep the action focused and fast.
Cheers,
Antonio
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