Play Instrument
- Thread starter atgxtg
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GbajiTheDeceiver
Mongoose
OK, getting serious again, this is one I was thinking about a while back in the context of removing skill categories from MRQ.
Historically Play Instrument has been a Manipulation skill, but I had started wondering about that. As a manipulation skill, it equates to your stereotypical stunt guitarist who is great at going "widdly widdly widdly weeee" but is completely unentertaining (unless you're into that kind of thing). And as the whole point of playing an instrument has to be to entertain, CHA makes sense. OK, CHA + DEX - 10 would have made more sense, but (and I accept this is a matter of personal taste) I'd personally prefer a mediocre musician hammerin' out a good 'un to "widdly widdly widdly weeee" any day.
Anyway, speaking of Zappa and Hendrix - I wonder how the fatigue rules fit into the Play Instrument skill? Just for those 17 hour guitar solos, you know?
Historically Play Instrument has been a Manipulation skill, but I had started wondering about that. As a manipulation skill, it equates to your stereotypical stunt guitarist who is great at going "widdly widdly widdly weeee" but is completely unentertaining (unless you're into that kind of thing). And as the whole point of playing an instrument has to be to entertain, CHA makes sense. OK, CHA + DEX - 10 would have made more sense, but (and I accept this is a matter of personal taste) I'd personally prefer a mediocre musician hammerin' out a good 'un to "widdly widdly widdly weeee" any day.
Anyway, speaking of Zappa and Hendrix - I wonder how the fatigue rules fit into the Play Instrument skill? Just for those 17 hour guitar solos, you know?
Well tthe normal fatuge rules would seem to apply, based upon how strenous the actively would be. I would assume than mentally strenous counts as much as phsiccallly strenous, and use fatigue rolls in other situations. I might substitute Resislience or Persisence for Athletics for a Wolrd Class Chess or Poker Tournament.
I've been thinking of adding skill categories back into MRQ, as a streamlining move. Put down the base categories and then use those for any skills that a character doesn't raise above base. THat would cut it down to 6 "basic skill" categories. Something like Agility/Athletics, Knowledge/Lore, Comminucation/Social, Perception, Stealth, Manipulation and Magic. (Since Parry has been dropped and Attack=Maniupulation that would cover everything except Resilience and Persistience)
So someone who has "Basic close combat" would use that untiil he raised a weapon skill above the base skill %.
Advanced skills would work the same except there would be no default roll until the skill was learned, then it would get written down under the correct category.
I've been thinking of adding skill categories back into MRQ, as a streamlining move. Put down the base categories and then use those for any skills that a character doesn't raise above base. THat would cut it down to 6 "basic skill" categories. Something like Agility/Athletics, Knowledge/Lore, Comminucation/Social, Perception, Stealth, Manipulation and Magic. (Since Parry has been dropped and Attack=Maniupulation that would cover everything except Resilience and Persistience)
So someone who has "Basic close combat" would use that untiil he raised a weapon skill above the base skill %.
Advanced skills would work the same except there would be no default roll until the skill was learned, then it would get written down under the correct category.
atgxtg said:
That sounds like an easy, elegant and obvious modification that has RQ precedent. I wonder why they didn't do something like that to begin with. I believe it was discussed by the playtesters during playtesting but rejected for some reason.
As a further simplification, you could replace Resilience with con x 5, and Pers.... what? we've heard that one before?
Not quite the same. THe idea here would be to get rid of the base chances and only use 8 or so fomulas to cover everthing. So you don't bother to write dodge, or acrobatics, or althetics down on your sheet, but just use the Agility base until you raise one of those skills.
Cme to think of it, Agility and Stealth skills cound be combined to the same category, further streamlining.
Cme to think of it, Agility and Stealth skills cound be combined to the same category, further streamlining.
I think instruments are difficult to lump together to be honest.
Sure pianos, violins, guitars and harps require manual dexterity for technical prowess and expression however what about something like a trumpet or a hunting horn. Incredible skill required no doubt but not really dexterity is it?
Still not convinced by Charisma as a base for the skill but it's hardly a huge worry. I have to say that I would lean towards Power as the basis as I tend to feel that music is one of the most direct forms of expression but then I would tend to equate Power (the stat) with confidence.
This still leaves me with a quandary... when you're down on your luck and your confidence, I'd equate that with a low Power score... so how come the blues is so good?
Sure pianos, violins, guitars and harps require manual dexterity for technical prowess and expression however what about something like a trumpet or a hunting horn. Incredible skill required no doubt but not really dexterity is it?
Still not convinced by Charisma as a base for the skill but it's hardly a huge worry. I have to say that I would lean towards Power as the basis as I tend to feel that music is one of the most direct forms of expression but then I would tend to equate Power (the stat) with confidence.
This still leaves me with a quandary... when you're down on your luck and your confidence, I'd equate that with a low Power score... so how come the blues is so good?
bluejay said:
Trumpet would be a mix, DEX/STR?CON probably. You need the DEX, but you also need good muscle and breath control-mostly to "buzz".
bluejay said:
True is isn't a big worry. Especially since most characters will have stats within 5 points or so of each other, so attributes don't really factor in a big way. A +5% or +10% from a background will matter more than the stat score.
bluejay said:
Well in old RQ2 terms being "down on your luck" would meen being low on temperary POW (=Magic Points) rather than permanent POW. SO maybe playing the blues helps to replentish POW points? :wink:
Rurik said:
Ah, more places for optional rules:
1) Add 5% to your skill but make a resilience test or die (two rolls if you drive, three if youboard an airplane)
2) Make a deal with a "big name": Get an IP roll each day, for "free". Just sing this little seven year and a day contract. In blood.
:wink: :wink:
Utgardloki
Mongoose
It should be possible for SAN to go below zero. After all, I'm still working at my current company, and my SAN is still dropping. I must have passed zero years ago.
Well playing a lute maybe not useful fighting Broo, but it is against trolls. If i remember rightly, Rune levels of Kygor Litor have to let people finish their song befor they take action, so if you out numbered 50 to one by trolls start singing a million bottles of beer on the wall.
And for more serious note. There are autistics with relatively low IQ"s that are gifted musicians so int not the only factor .
And does anyone know about what time period did people start writing music down and stop playing all music just by ear?
And for more serious note. There are autistics with relatively low IQ"s that are gifted musicians so int not the only factor .
And does anyone know about what time period did people start writing music down and stop playing all music just by ear?
TRose said:
THe Greatful Dead go into "space" and the trolls get bored after a coupleof hours and move off.
TRose said:
I think that is more of a case of "focused" INT. Like the ones who can remember enitre books verbatim, or the ones who can do math equations inb thier head faster than with a calulator, or count the dropped matchsticks. It is a form of INTelligence, just one that manifests is unconventuial ways.
As for muscial notation, it has existed in various forms going back to at Least the Egyptains (it might go back farther, but we haven't found anything. THat the Eqypians were one of the first cultures withpapyrus might be one reason they could write stuff down). So essentuially written music goes back almost as far as civilization.
Even so many musicians today can't read music and still play by ear.
Utgardloki said:
It should be possible for SAN to go below zero. After all, I'm still working at my current company, and my SAN is still dropping. I must have passed zero years ago.
Nope, you SAN is still above ZERO. You haven't hit the stage when you think it has stopped dropping and might be going up. THat's about the point when they want to give you a better postion in mangement.
Utgardloki
Mongoose
So THAT's why they haven't promoted me. Things at work still haven't started making sense yet.
As for idiot savants, I'd treat that as a special ability, and probably restrict it to NPCs. So the character would have an INT of between 3 and 7, but also have special abilities and limitations. Perhaps even INT 21 (Music) and INT 3 (Everything Else).
I guess written music goes back as far as the earliest writings however formalised written music isn't really that old. I mean orchestral music was performed by whichever musicians you had to hand up until somewhere like the 15th-16th century. After that proper arrangements started to become the norm.
Folk music is likely to even now still be passed down mostly orally amongst the actual culture itself. Most recording and arrangements of cultural music come from research done by external groups.
Thinking seriously for a second if I really had to try and model musical aptitude accurately then I would imagine many things would come into it. For instance, music encompasses theory, composition, arrangement, performance, perception and improvisational skills. How do you determine if someone has a good 'ear' for music? It really is simply a completely separate attribute. Also, although many of the physical aspects of different groups of instruments are entirely unique, being able to play one instrument gives you a huge head start on other instruments. For instance, once I'd been playing guitar for 15 years I took up the saxophone. Entirely different instruments but my timing, intonation and phrasing were all good for a beginner because I knew what to listen out for and correct myself.
Of course this is way more complex than is necessary for a skill that is often little more than colour in many people's campaigns.
Folk music is likely to even now still be passed down mostly orally amongst the actual culture itself. Most recording and arrangements of cultural music come from research done by external groups.
Thinking seriously for a second if I really had to try and model musical aptitude accurately then I would imagine many things would come into it. For instance, music encompasses theory, composition, arrangement, performance, perception and improvisational skills. How do you determine if someone has a good 'ear' for music? It really is simply a completely separate attribute. Also, although many of the physical aspects of different groups of instruments are entirely unique, being able to play one instrument gives you a huge head start on other instruments. For instance, once I'd been playing guitar for 15 years I took up the saxophone. Entirely different instruments but my timing, intonation and phrasing were all good for a beginner because I knew what to listen out for and correct myself.
Of course this is way more complex than is necessary for a skill that is often little more than colour in many people's campaigns.
Some of those problem actually aplly to other skills too. For examplein doing electroincs, you need knoweldge of what you are doing, INT to think logically, DEX to do the eye hand soldering, wiring and such.
THere is a way to handle that, but it means using the "old ways"
As to how differenrt instruments can help in giving you the "basics", that is also true for many other things.
A good way to hald that is also an "old way", the "half skill rule". THatis if the GM considers skills to be cloely related he can let the play use half his skill as the starting percentage ranther than the base percentage.
THere is a way to handle that, but it means using the "old ways"
As to how differenrt instruments can help in giving you the "basics", that is also true for many other things.
A good way to hald that is also an "old way", the "half skill rule". THatis if the GM considers skills to be cloely related he can let the play use half his skill as the starting percentage ranther than the base percentage.
Ah, like the related weapon thing in RQ3... yeah I like that.
Not too sure what to think of this system at the moment but I don' have time to run anything with it. Running a one-shot Mutants and Masterminds session on Saturday and then back on with my long-running Call of Cthulhu campaign. Just finished the Warhammer Paths of the Damned campaign so my group aren't really itching to get back to fantasy stuff just yet.
Not too sure what to think of this system at the moment but I don' have time to run anything with it. Running a one-shot Mutants and Masterminds session on Saturday and then back on with my long-running Call of Cthulhu campaign. Just finished the Warhammer Paths of the Damned campaign so my group aren't really itching to get back to fantasy stuff just yet.
bluejay said:
The RQ2 version was better as sword were all differenrt skills. There was even some crossover with swords and axes. One interesting bit was that you only got full skill with YOUR weapon, not another one like it. THe idea being that the differences between weapons would be enough to throw you off until you had time to familairze yourself with the weapon.
Certainly senstibe when one realizes that most sword were not mass produced idential copies (carbon copies?
)[/quote]
GbajiTheDeceiver
Mongoose
atgxtg said:Certainly senstibe when one realizes that most sword were not mass produced idential copies (carbon copies?
Unless you have one from the Clanking City. :lol:
Going back to music for a bit, it's fairly obvious that the intention of using CHA is to represent expression and entertainment, rather than pure technical ability. Of course, the same argument could be made about other art forms, but in the particular case of music what we have is something that's almost an equivalent of the old Fast Talk and Orate skills. If I was trying to soothe a barbarian warlords foul mood, I'd much rather move his heart with a simple tune than dazzle him with fretwork. That's CHA all over.
