Pinned Shadow Ship Question

[TimoftheC2]

Hi all,

Had a game last night which was Earth Alliance against a Shadow Fleet (well, some Shadow Scouts that is) and one of the Hyperions managed to pin one of the Scouts.

That brought up a couple of questions about what the Shadow Scout could or could not do whilst pinned. The rules state that the pinned ship "may take no further action in this turn or the next". I interpret that to mean it does not move or shoot whilst it is pinned, but what about it's traits?

We decided that the pinned ship did not get its Dodge ability as that meant some element of manuverability - correct?

We decided that its shields regenerated as normal as this was an automatic ship system that replenished itself - no action was required by the ship to generate shields, it just happens. Is that correct?

Finally, what happens to its Stealth Trait? Again, this is an innate ability of the ship so we decided that it was not affected by being pinned and any ship firing at it still had to get a lock-on first. However, this then lead to the Hyperion that was pinning the Scout! It did not make sense for that ship to have to get a lock-on as that was the one locked to the Scout so we ignored Stealth for that attack. Again, does that sound right?

Any input on this greatly welcomed please - what should we have done??

As a final thought, I need ideas for carrying cases or boxes for the shadow ships that I now have. My EA models are ok as they’re on removable magnetic "Ninja Magic" bases so I can transport the ship and stands separately. However, the shadow ships are all on permanent round plastic bases - how does anybody else transport/store models like that?

Many thnx

Tim

 

[Myrm]

We've always playedit as may do nothing that requires a choice or decision - anything that is automatic just goes on - so self repair, stealth, shields etc is ok, firing weapons, special actions, voluntary movement is out. Dodge is a 'may do this' option so is out when we go for it.

 

[H]

Surely It can't do anything, the ship is pinned, it is in pain, and not in control was how I viewed it.
you try actively dodging a football thrown at you, whilst someone is squeezing your balls!
shields, the ship has a lot of energy being pumped into it, it's trying to resist, where would it get the energy for shield repair, and it certainly can't stealth, "lock on to that impact point" their is a bloody great beam hitting it lighting it up like a christmas tree!

However thats just my interpretation.

what constitutes an action? you rolling dice? in that case dodge is still out, in fact, you can CHOOSE not to dodge for example when maneouvreing to shield. stealth is in, but surely at -1, and I admit i forget if shields are a D6 or 1.

 

[AdrianH]

We decided that the pinned ship did not get its Dodge ability as that meant some element of manuverability - correct?

We decided that its shields regenerated as normal as this was an automatic ship system that replenished itself - no action was required by the ship to generate shields, it just happens. Is that correct?

Finally, what happens to its Stealth Trait? Again, this is an innate ability of the ship so we decided that it was not affected by being pinned and any ship firing at it still had to get a lock-on first.

I'd agree with all that. Shields, stealth and self-repair are all passive traits and I've always assumed they still work. (Shields and stealth are effectively built into the ship's skin, and if it's in that much pain you can bet it will be trying to self-repair!) Dodge doesn't work if a ship can't move - if I remember correctly, that's stated in the rules about Dodge.

However, this then lead to the Hyperion that was pinning the Scout! It did not make sense for that ship to have to get a lock-on as that was the one locked to the Scout so we ignored Stealth for that attack. Again, does that sound right?

No, a ship which successfully broke stealth last turn does not get an automatic lock-on this turn - it doesn't work like that if you're facing any other race's stealth ships (Minbari!), so it shouldn't work that way against Shadows either.

As a final thought, I need ideas for carrying cases or boxes for the shadow ships that I now have. My EA models are ok as they’re on removable magnetic "Ninja Magic" bases so I can transport the ship and stands separately. However, the shadow ships are all on permanent round plastic bases - how does anybody else transport/store models like that?

For carrying ships, I've got one of these:
http://cpc.farnell.com/raaco/715355/box-adjustable-division-small/dp/SG32787?Ntt=sg32787
The partitions are adjustable and, lined with tissue paper, provide adequate protection for my Shadow fleet. (I have another, similar type but different design, for my other ships.) Mind you, all my larger Shadow ships are on Mongoose ball-and-socket flying bases so the stem and base can be removed for transport. The socket doesn't fit between the Scout's lower spines so I glued the stems into those but again left the bases separate, so they fit neatly into the smaller compartments of that case.

You could also try your luck with this:
http://cpc.farnell.com/hofbauer/9512000/case-maxibag-0-5-black/dp/SG33062?Ntt=sg33062
This is a case with foam lining. There are other sizes available.

 

[Greg Smith]

A pinned ship cannot dodge. The dodge rules state: "Ships that are Adrift,
or those that cannot or have not moved during the Movement Phase may not benefi t from the Dodge trait."

Repair and shield regeneration is done as normal.

Stealth should be done as normal, by the letter of the rules. It might seem a bit silly that the Shadow ship cannot move and is supposedly pinned on the aim of the Hyperion's beam, yet cannot be locked on to. But remember that the Hyperion is not required to remain in place or even fire its beam again at the shadow.

 

[TimoftheC2]

Many thanx for the replies all - seems we got it mostly right just by some simple use of common sense

Stealth should be done as normal, by the letter of the rules. It might seem a bit silly that the Shadow ship cannot move and is supposedly pinned on the aim of the Hyperion's beam, yet cannot be locked on to. But remember that the Hyperion is not required to remain in place or even fire its beam again at the shadow.

Point taken on the use of stealth - will remeber it for the next game. Does seem a little silly and did not really make sense to us when we were discussing it but if thems the rules then that's what we'll do :shock:

Actaually, there was one other question that arose and I forgot to add it to this post originally and that is Redundent Systems for the Shadows and Crits. Pretty sure this must have happened many times in the past but one of the Shadow Scouts received a Crit that stated "no damage control permitted". Does that overide the Redundent Systems ability of a ship, i.e. it no longer auto repairs crits in the end phase?

Thnx again

Tim

 

[AdrianH]

Redundant Systems isn't damage control. There are two big differences - one is that you don't roll for it, the other is that it is not affected by the "No Damage Control" crit.

If the Hyperion is allowed to retain its weapons lock from the previous turn then, since it has a lock-on this turn, it will automatically have a lock-on next turn, and so on - it can keep on firing at that Scout until either the Scout is destroyed or the Hyperion is destroyed by something else. That interpretation of the rules would seriously weaken the Stealth trait, and thus completely mess up the Minbari. Think of it like this - the sensor operator on the Hyperion had to do something clever to beat the Scout's stealth, and unless he keeps doing it the weapons lock is lost. There's no such thing as stopping in space - let the Scout drift even slightly while out of control, or let the Hyperion deviate even a fraction of a degree off course, and it's not pointing right at the Scout any more. Such slight movements aren't covered in ACTA but they're enough to mean that the Hyperion must lock on again and compensate.

 

[TimoftheC2]

Redundant Systems isn't damage control. There are two big differences - one is that you don't roll for it, the other is that it is not affected by the "No Damage Control" crit.

If the Hyperion is allowed to retain its weapons lock from the previous turn then, since it has a lock-on this turn, it will automatically have a lock-on next turn, and so on - it can keep on firing at that Scout until either the Scout is destroyed or the Hyperion is destroyed by something else. That interpretation of the rules would seriously weaken the Stealth trait, and thus completely mess up the Minbari. Think of it like this - the sensor operator on the Hyperion had to do something clever to beat the Scout's stealth, and unless he keeps doing it the weapons lock is lost. There's no such thing as stopping in space - let the Scout drift even slightly while out of control, or let the Hyperion deviate even a fraction of a degree off course, and it's not pointing right at the Scout any more. Such slight movements aren't covered in ACTA but they're enough to mean that the Hyperion must lock on again and compensate.

Many thanks for that Adrian and for the others that posted, answering my questions - was just what I needed.

 

[TimoftheC2]

For carrying ships, I've got one of these:
http://cpc.farnell.com/raaco/715355/box-adjustable-division-small/dp/SG32787?Ntt=sg32787
The partitions are adjustable and, lined with tissue paper, provide adequate protection for my Shadow fleet. (I have another, similar type but different design, for my other ships.) Mind you, all my larger Shadow ships are on Mongoose ball-and-socket flying bases so the stem and base can be removed for transport. The socket doesn't fit between the Scout's lower spines so I glued the stems into those but again left the bases separate, so they fit neatly into the smaller compartments of that case.

You could also try your luck with this:
http://cpc.farnell.com/hofbauer/9512000/case-maxibag-0-5-black/dp/SG33062?Ntt=sg33062
This is a case with foam lining. There are other sizes available.

Thanx for that Adrian.

However, I've been having a real scout around on the case front and have decided to go with a plastic case from Fendherr that comes with two layers (60mm depth) of "pick and pluck" foam - they call it Raster. Found a seemingly great place for this in Total Wargamer -guys there were very helpful and even updated their website for on the spot when they realised that the foam I wanted wasn't listed. It's ordered but not arrived yet but seems pretty good (if a bit pricey). Check it out here - http://www.totalwargamer.co.uk/feldherr-hard-case-l.html

I'll update the post when the case arrives if anybodys interested.

Regards

Tim

 

[Anbar]

what is "pinned"?

 

[TimoftheC2]

what is "pinned"?

Hi Anbar.

I'm refering to the rules for Shadow Ships, specifically the rule for "Physical Disruption" i.e. when a Shadow Ship takes more than 25% damage (25% of its total starting damage) in a single attack from a beam weapon it is "pinned" and can take no actions in the next turn.

If ypu want to read it it is part of the special rules section for Shadow Ships in the B5 Fleet Lists book.

Hope that explains it