Picking up a fetish if not a spirit user

[Antalon]

Page 140 of the RQ rules says:

"The maximum number of spirits which can be held by a spirit magician depends on cult rank:
- Follower: ¼ of CHA.
- Spirit Worshipper: ½ of CHA.
- Shaman: ¾ of CHA.
- High Shaman: All CHA.
If this number is ever exceeded, then the strongest spirit(s) break free, possibly extracting revenge if they were hostile to the binding."

This seems to have a number of implications:

1) If you are not a spirit user (and do not belong to any spirit cult), then picking up or even touching a fetish may release its bound spirits. These spirits return to the spirit plane and depending upon their nature may attack the person that touched the fetish (or other nearby sentients).

Is this plausible given RAW?

2) This same risk may apply to fetishes that belong to other spirit using cults / traditions, such that even if you are a Shaman you would risk releasing spirits if touching the fetish of a different spirit cult.

Is this intended by RAW? If not, I quite like it anyway :twisted:

 

[dbhoward]

I don't think this is how the rule was intended. On the same page you quote, it says "To use a spirit, the magician must first call it forth" (emphasis added).

That seems to mean that the spirit is not able to come out of its fetish unless it is deliberately called forth, or the maximum number of spirits that can be held by the magician is exceeded.

The rule you mention (about bound spirits applying to the limit for a new recipient) only applies to fetishes which are deliberately passed over to another (see p. 140 again). If someone picks up a shaman's fetish, it still counts as the shaman's. It never counts toward someone else's limit until the shaman intentionally passes it on to them (the recipient, I assume, is agreeing to take it--- you can't pass on a fetish like pulling the pin on a grenade!).

 

[gran_orco]

An official answer would be useful. I had understood this like Antalon.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

1) If you are not a spirit user (and do not belong to any spirit cult), then picking up or even touching a fetish may release its bound spirits. These spirits return to the spirit plane and depending upon their nature may attack the person that touched the fetish (or other nearby sentients).

If you are not a Spirit Magic user then the fetish remains quiescent in your hands. The spirit is trapped within until called forth. Without the correct knowledge you cannot use it and it doesn't count against you.

However, there is nothing to prevent you from physically breaking the fetish which will sunder the binding and allow the spirit to return to the Spirit Plane (to do as it will). How vulnerable the fetish is depends on the culture/setting, but I'd suggest that the material has to be natural, and relevant to the spirit bound to it. A bear tooth or claw for a bear, or feathers for an eagle spirit, and so on.

So if you were a truly evil GM you could for example bind a pissed off disease spirit into a old fungus infested log of wood, and leave it in the wood pile of your enemy. When the log is burned, the spirit is released with obvious consequences.

Or perhaps you wish to guard a sacred tribal spot. In which case bind an aggressive spirit into an empty egg shell and place it under a flat rock which interlopers will step upon. Or into a fragile mandala drawn into a patch of sand. Or a hard to spot piece of woven grass. And so on.

The possibilities are endless.

Now saying all of that, you could in your glorantha/setting decide that touching a fetish pollutes its sanctity, thereby sundering the binding. If you do that however, you shouldn't allow fetishes to be passed/exchanged between people to maintain logical consistency. The impact would be that shaman could no longer make fetishes for their tribe, since every man must make thier own and jealously prevent others from polluting them. A situation which would fit with some real world cultures for example.

 

[Antalon]

Thanks for the clarification Pete.

Antalon.

 

[gran_orco]

Pete, could you explain how must a shaman create a fetish to give it to another member of the practice?
Should he transfer it to him and nothing else? Could a spirit user take or steal the fetishes? (for exemple, after a battle between two shamans).

 

[Antalon]

Pete, could you explain how must a shaman create a fetish to give it to another member of the practice?
Should he transfer it to him and nothing else? Could a spirit user take or steal the fetishes? (for exemple, after a battle between two shamans).

Good question.

I'm likely to rule as follows:

1) A spirit-user that creates a fetish (with bound spirit) may grant it to a follower of the same spirit tradition (possibly even limited to same tribe or clan). This requires a succesful spirit binding test by the original owner to command the spirit to obey its new owner. Whether the owner can control the spirit depends upon their own skill. It is possible that an allied spirit would willingly be transferred.

2) Fetish cannot be passed to or used by non-spirit users.

3) Shamans / spirit-users of a different tradition cannot use the fetish unless allied in some (spiritual) way with the cuurent/original owner of the fetish. Other traditions may break the physical fetish, and attempt to capture and re-bind any spirits.

So, no stealing fetishes and turning them upon their owners immediately unless you want a certain spirit to be released (either just to capture or to weaken the rival - perhaps by just holding the spirit bound to the fetish).

Antalon.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Pete, could you explain how must a shaman create a fetish to give it to another member of the practice?
Should he transfer it to him and nothing else? Could a spirit user take or steal the fetishes? (for exemple, after a battle between two shamans).

Sorry Gran, can't write an in-depth answer now as I'm up to my eyeballs finishing off Vikings at the moment. But look at Antalon's ideas, as he has the general 'spirit' of it. :wink: