PGMP weight

[WoodsWalker]

According to the core rules the PGMP is 10 kg which comes out to about 22 pounds. Okay, it's a heavy gun for a heavy job. The problem for me pops up when it says anyone below strength 12 takes a cumulative -1 to attacks. I get that this is supposed to the a weapon for marines but 10 Kg isn't that heavy. The M240B general purpose machine gun weighs 12.3 Kg which is significantly heavier. No it is not fired like a rifle but it can be controlled when using a rest or the built in bi-pod. With a recoil of 3 it would be a lot to handle but that effects INITIATIVE for the next round and not actually hitting.

I could see requiring combat armor to use it because the armor could have a built in shock plate to mitigate the recoil. The power pack would require an assistant who would also help carry ammo. It would be a "suck fest" but it would be doable. Just like a modern machine gun team.

That machine gun team concept seems to fit the weapon too. It is capable of auto fire and it could really clobber light vehicles. Troops in battle dress could really make them operate at full efficiency but a modified, crew served version would be very popular with merc units and lower budget militaries that need the heavy firepower but may not need or be able to afford battle dress.

I am fairly new to Traveller and don't have much beyond the base book and the Hammer's Slammers supplement so if I'm missing something I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks.

 

[GypsyComet]

Part of it is also the heat generated by each shot. The control over that improves as TL increases, but they are heavy, high recoil, and increasingly hot. One thing lost over the years is that they also splash...

 

[rust]

The problem for me pops up when it says anyone below strength 12 takes a cumulative -1 to attacks.

The weight of the weapon is not the problem, it is the weapon's
concept - just imagine the impact of the recoil from a weapon fi-
ring its plasma bolts at a significantly higher velocity than that of
the projectiles of normal guns, which is necessary because other-
wise the heat from the plasma bolt could kill the person firing the
weapon, and add the cumulative aiming problems caused by the
extreme heat itself. Using it in any stationary role, with a bipod or
tripod, would force the crew to suffer from the accumulating heat,
especially when autofire is used, and I very much doubt that the
crew could survive this without protective gear for more than a
few minutes at best.

 

[locarno24]

Ultimately, yes. I can see a 'crew served' man-portable artillery team. The strength requirement essentially makes for a 'double recoil' effect - far more than the recoil on a light or medium machne gun (which is in Mercenary).
Ultimately any strength requirement can be overcome if you have multiple people in a weapons team and a reasonably solid fixed mount (I'd suggest this is something more than just a bipod job, though - if you've ever seen WWI antitank rifles, I'd look to things like that).
You'll still need to deal with the massive radiation pulses from firing the thing - some sort of rad suits/drugs/whatever.

 

[GypsyComet]

The PGMP isn't a huge ionizing radiation source. It produces mostly heat.

The FGMP, on the other hand...

 

[F33D]

The PGMP isn't a huge ionizing radiation source. It produces mostly heat.

The FGMP, on the other hand...

Correct. SO much heat that you'd be cooked alive if you fire it without being in at least combat armour.

 

[alex_greene]

The core rulebook mentions something about the FGMP generating a considerable amount of ionising radiation. My first comment, when I first read this, was "... particularly out of the end facing away from the shooter."

 

[GypsyComet]

The early FGMP doesn't do a thorough job of containing that radiation, and requires a hardsuit of some sort. In earlier editions the FGMP becomes a casual fire weapon at TL16, by which time the PGMP is down to a pistol.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

I think some of the handwaving required for the PGMP involves including a way to contain, recycle and remove the excess heat (and a mechanism which would work in a vacuum as well, remember these weapons are intended for use in all environments). We have adapted the effect of weight on firing to include other weapons, if the weight is stronger than the characters strength, -1 to hit for each point of difference. Of course, if using a bipod/tripod/mount then no problems, though set up times may be required, and deployment may be more difficult.

I have always considered teams of combat armour equipped troops quite capable of moving a PGMP or FGMP in two parts, and setting up the said weapon on a tripod mount, being a perfectly reasonable means of deployment for forces without battledress.

Egil

 

[F33D]

I think some of the handwaving required for the PGMP involves including a way to contain, recycle and remove the excess heat

It is the heating of the air immediately in front of the muzzle that would get the shooter. So, no help there for the handwave of containing the heat while it's inside the weapon.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

I think some of the handwaving required for the PGMP involves including a way to contain, recycle and remove the excess heat

It is the heating of the air immediately in front of the muzzle that would get the shooter. So, no help there for the handwave of containing the heat while it's inside the weapon.

Good point, the final handwave will have to use the Traveller catch all wave...

"It's done with grav technology, the large coil around the muzzle creates a localized gravitic force that deflects and focusses the heat wave towards the target, and stops any back wash, etc etc" :wink:

Egil

 

[Wil Mireu]

"It's done with grav technology, the large coil around the muzzle creates a localized gravitic force that deflects and focusses the heat wave towards the target, and stops any back wash, etc etc" :wink:

Egil

You'd need to generate a huge gravitational field to "deflect heat" towards anything.

 

[GypsyComet]

I suspect the idea would be more to keep the superheated air moving down range. Still going to be hot, but if the blast of superheated air is contained and channeled, you remove or reduce one of the methods of heat transmission to the firer. A combination of magnetic field control and gravitics should do the trick, since that air is also ionized.

PGMPs and FGMPs tend to look like flamethrowers in use until you realize they fire only a small packet of "flame". The air does the rest.

 

[WoodsWalker]

Great comments from everyone. Thanks!

My plan was to use a crew served version for a merc unit that uses combat armor but has only limited access to battle dress. So heat absorption wouldn't really be a problem for them. I was originally envisioning a weapon on the level of a General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG) but it would seem the weapon would be better suited to heavy machine gun uses ala the US .50 cal machine gun which is held at a higher level. It is a light anti-vehicle/anti-personnel weapon.
The problem I see is it leaves a big gapping hole in the weapons load out for a unit. For going on 100 years now their has been increased efforts to put more firepower under the control of smaller sub-units. A weapon like the GPMG would started WWI as battalion level weapons and by the end were down to the company level. They were held at the company level but increased in numbers and were dolled out to the platoons. They've been used as squad weapons but were replaced by lighter and better suited SAWs. Problem is Traveller doesn't take into account the infantry's need for volume of fire to accomplish the kind of missions infantry gets.
So I was think a recoil compensated plasma gun would work well in that role for augmenting a combat armor equipped force. That doesn't seem to work so well though.
I suppose I could have a dedicated gunner in battle dress but then if you have 1:10 troopers in battle dress you would be better off concentrating them into a strike force.
I was also taking some inspiration from the Hammer's Slammers book that puts cranky, difficult Power Guns (ie plasma guns) in a much lower tech level than they should be with all the problems that entails. They use a tri-barrel power gun to deal with the horrible heat issues that plague the plasma weapons of that setting. It would seem Drake didn't consider the full implications of the heat issues beyond the problem with the gun barrels.
My concern is the Traveller universe may not be able to accommodate my vision of a combat unit in the far future.

 

[Meanderer]

I have had heavy plasma weapons in use.

This allows a crew served TL 11 or 10 weapon that can burn through higher tech combat armour.

one trooper carries the plasma gun, another the tripod and recoil compensator, a third the power pack hydrogen supply.

The same concept can be carried forward to higher tech levels where the tripod and recoil compensators are still needed for that rapid pulse PGMP-13. But you sure can pin down a squad when you're firing multiple shots per turn in their general direction, with splash. Remember the splash.

 

[sideranautae]

I could see requiring combat armor to use it because the armor could have a built in shock plate to mitigate the recoil.

Anyone firing it without combat armor would be killed from the heat. Another item to errata in the next edition.