Parry Example?

[Banesfinger]

Just 2 quick questions about parry:

#1) Is it true that initially (ignoring background), your chance (%) to parry with a Kite Shield is the same as (%) chance to parry with a dagger?

#2) Example: attacker successfuly hits for 18 damage. Defender successfully parries with Kite Shield;

Attacker's damage is lowered by the AP of shield ( 10 ), correct? There would be 8 damage remaining. Does this 8 damage go toward:
a) the HPs of the sheild ( 18 ), and stops there, or
b) the the defender's armor APs then HPs?, or both
c) the sheilds HPs are reduced AND the damage goes onto the defender.

Thanks.

 

[Rurik]

Yes, starting percentages are based soley on Characteristics in MRQ - not the weapon involved.

Damage is applied first to the Shields AP, then to Armor AP, and finally to HP. So if the target in your example had 2 point leather and took 18 points, the shield would absorb 10, the Armor would absorb 2, and the target would take 6 points of damage.

Weapons only take damage as a result of precise attacks that target them - there is no 'wear and tear' in MRQ, so the shields HP (or AP) are not reduced in your example.

All 18 points of damage count towards knockback.

Are you using the Updated combat rules from the Players Update (available from the main Mongoose website)?

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/RQPlayersUpdate.pdf

In the Update normally a parry blocks all damage or none depending on whether the parry roll 'beats' the attack roll. AP only ever get used with Criticals and Ties. The Update is in Deluxe RQ and Elric, but not the original RQ Core Rulebook or Hawkmoon. Future printings of RQ and Hawkmoon will probably have the updated tables.

 

[DigitalMage]

In the Update normally a parry blocks all damage or none depending on whether the parry roll 'beats' the attack roll. AP only ever get used with Criticals and Ties.

And this is definately worth noting as it makes shields largely redundent - the only benefit of parrying with a shield over parrying with a weapon being the higher APs of a shield.

It is a bugbear of some of us but is easily fixed by ignoring the contested roll bit and downgrading the levels of success - just have the attacker and defender roll and compare the results on the chart (this also makes things a little simpler).

 

[weasel_fierce]

Or simply give weapons a parry bonus (AP x 2 seems fair). Alternatively, do it only for shields.

 

[RosenMcStern]

It has also been suggested various times to introduce a "Block" mechanics, alternative to parrying, that does not use an opposed roll, thus making life easier for the defender if he is using a high-AP weapon like a shield. In this case, though, since the blow is not deflected but absorbed by the weapon, any damage that overcomes weapon APs is applied to both the defender and the weapon Hit Points. Choosing between Parry and Block should be a defender's option.

 

[Banesfinger]

It has also been suggested various times to introduce a "Block" mechanics, alternative to parrying, that does not use an opposed roll, thus making life easier for the defender if he is using a high-AP weapon like a shield. In this case, though, since the blow is not deflected but absorbed by the weapon, any damage that overcomes weapon APs is applied to both the defender and the weapon Hit Points. Choosing between Parry and Block should be a defender's option.

So, if I understand this suggestion RosenMcStern, it would be similar to what I thought in "c" (see opening post), but with no opposed roll (it automatically happens if the defender has reactions remaining?)

But without an opposed roll, the defender is automatically successful at 'blocking'. If the defender has a Kite Shield (AP10), that would mean the attacker would need a weapon that does more than 1d10 damage (looking at the weapons, only about 5% do this...).
So, against anything short of a Lance, the defender is absolutely safe (until he runs out of reactions)....????

 

[Banesfinger]

When we were stupid (read through the rules too quickly), we never used the AP/HP of the weapons for parry...

When the defender parried, he also rolled the damage for his weapon (incl. str) and used this as a "variable AP". The amount rolled was 'deflected' and the rest went through to the defender.

Example:
Defender successfully parries a blow that causes 18 damage. He is parrying with a shortsword (thus rolling 1d6 dmg). He rolls a '5'. So 5 damage is deflected and the remaining 13 goes through to the defender.

Very simple.

Problems we quickly solved:
Shields: we just let them have max 'deflection' roll (e.g., a Kite Shield uses 1d6 would automatically roll a '6').
Critical parries: we just x2 their 'deflection' roll. (Again, we did not understand the combat matrix - so we ignored it: crits just cause double damage/deflection rolls).

Now, looking back at this 'mistaken' play, we actually liked it better (than the official rules - including updates).

Your thoughts?

 

[RosenMcStern]

"No opposed roll" means that you roll the defense and apply the result found in the tables, without comparing the two rolls and downgrading the lowest one in case of a tie. There is no automatic success.

This introduces some realism in allowing a not-so-skilled character to defend more effectively with a big shield, leaving "elegant" parries that deflect the blow rather than interposing the weapon to more skilled fighters. If you have 100% and a big shield, though, an opponent with a light weapon has trouble hurting you. This happened also in RQ3 and the first printing of MRQ, however.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Its worth noting that large shields do permit you to parry missile attacks, which a weapon cannot. So its still worth lugging a shield around.