P&P Playtest Pack v 1.1

As to how you folks play... larger games played on the 6x4 boards are much easier on bore sighted ships locally, as target density rises. At our typical 5 raid we find it hard to hunt sinks hiding in corners due to it being a couple of turns away and likely as fast and maneuverable as you are, not impossible... just often the battle is over by the time you get a good shot on it.

Ripple[/quote]


As a rule, the game is expanded onto two tables to avoid such congestion and to allow for some manuevering. Even so, bore sight ships always have something to shoot at.
 
David said:
As a rule, the game is expanded onto two tables to avoid such congestion and to allow for some manuevering. Even so, bore sight ships always have something to shoot at.
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thats the way arround here as well
 
dag'karlove said:
stepan.razin said:
dag'karlove said:
While i applaud your english skills comrade razin, the expression is patting yourself on the back not padding. As for the understanding of the game and balance, for those of us that have been playing this since first edition, boresighting has been in the game since the beginning. It was offset by more dice on the main weapon. Yes it was a bit more difficult to target but when you did it made it count. A quick search will reveal several threads, the gist of which is that Boresight is too ineffective particularly for boresight dependent fleets and. that its too difficult to use. this is why this proposed SA has been devised. simply ecause people find it hard to play the fleet not because it unbalanced. Have a great day
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The rules for Beams and boresights could have been painted on the cave walls for all I care, I will take a well balanced game over a game that fits some lame rationalization.

I will just choose to disagree with your assesment that boresight fleets like the Drazi are merely hard to play and that a great tactician( read - rolls lots of 6s) can easily overcome.

Razin was from Ukraine... Google it. By the way, do you really think I live in Russia/Ukraine? And all the neat trivia about history and Russian navy aside, you do realize that his game is played with dice.

Do tell me if you spot any more spelling errors.. please
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Well Tovarisch my laundry list is as follows (and dont worry youre not the only target):

1. Its wrong grammar not spelling. You have the context and the word wrong. Nice cover up though.
2. I roll an inordinate amount of 1's and 2's ask anyone i game with the dice gods regularly laugh at me.
3. Just because i called you comrade you assume that i mean Russia. Do not forget that the Ukraine was also a communist/socialist nation for a long time and used that form of address as well as the russians. My GoogleFu and my knowledge of the Balkans Crimea etc etc is pretty good. I was unaware thatyou name was after that of a Pirate who cruised teh volga and other ares and im still unfamiliar with teh game you speak of in your earlier post.
4. As to where youre from I could honestly care less, unless its down the street from me in which case i would love to meet you and discuss this face to face as i hate to type.
5. As for a Lame Rationalization, try the real world. Thats what these games emulate. unfortunately in the real world not everything is balanced. Are the Russians and the Georgians balanced? Not even close. On the show are the Minbari and the Drazi equal in capabilities and strengths? Not any where close. "But its a game, But its a game" everyone screams as this is the perfectly acceptable answer for that and that ends all debate. Im sorry it doesnt. we play the game because we like the B5 universe. Im not sure many of you would disagree on that.
hell I like my game to be as close to the universe as possible. This Balance that everyone cries for doesnt exist in the cannon universe. the fleets were orignally designed that way and the game played great. now to get back to the original point here, this is a wargame, is it not? well a wargame is defined as: war game
Function: noun
1 : a simulated battle or campaign to test military concepts and usually conducted in conferences by officers acting as the opposing staffs
2 : a two-sided umpired training maneuver with actual elements of the armed forces participating

So lets Look at simulated. The root word is simulate Inflected Form(s): sim·u·lat·ed; sim·u·lat·ing
Etymology: Latin simulatus, past participle of simulare to copy, represent
: to follow as a pattern, model, or example
2 : to be or appear like : resemble
3 : to produce a copy of : reproduce

Now what does all of this say. Since this wargame is supposed to simulate the babylon 5 universe, one could make the logical assumption that it was designed to be as close to the series as possible while being somewhat balanced for the game even though wargames are just simulations.

For ripple:
I never said you were a poor admiral. You keep insinuating that I am calling you specifically a poor admiral. I am not as a matter of fact i said 95% of us get it leaving only 5 % (generally newbies) in that "I just dont understand Borseight mode." And as for your battle simulators, I do that everyday for a living. I wargame for the US Navy professionally. I understand all the mechanics behind it. The problem is, and yes im not going to play nice here, is that you dont like something because you invested some money in a fleet found it had a hard rule to play and then said we should change this because you cant employ it correctly. I never ever have a problem when Im emineless with my narn or missileless with my EA and Still manage to Hammer away with boresight weapons on lesser numbers or greater numbers of fleet ships. Its all about manuvering your equipment to be in the right place at the right time using fiegnts etc etc and thinking 3 moves ahead. if you arent, your opponent most definitely should be and thats probably why hes beating you with your boresight ships.

Have a nice day :D
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Dude, we get it, you are in the navy, I would have preferred the Marines personally. I am glad you could learn something about the history of that region, but calling him a pirate is simplifying things a bit, don't you think. Then again, at least you didnt call him a terrorist :D?

Russians vs Georgians? Are you serious? Last time I checked it was a game, based on a show which clearly doesn't pay much attention to the laws of physics... And the makers of this game at least state the balance is their goal.

By the way this is a game with full information, much like chess, but unlike chess this game is very, very simple... My buds and I like this game as a way to relax. This isnt exactly intellectually challenging exercise
 
This game is a poor example of military, combat or whichever 'simulation'

It is a game, plain and simple. It should be treated as such and not held up to 'realistic' expectations. While, I'll grant you, efforts to make it more realistic should be taken, it will never be 'simulation' Unless you call hamburger steak. No offense to Mongoose either. I want to play a Babylon 5 game. ACtA is to (Babylon 5) military combat simulation as the B5 RPG is to realistic portrale of life in the Babylon 5 world.
 
Shadows Vs Minbari 6 pts Battle with new stalker and Web rules!

1 Young Shadowship
3 Scouts
2 Stalkers
6 Fighter Bases

1 Sharkaan
1 Morshin
2 Leshath
2 Tigara
2 Ashinta

T1 Shadow win ini after 3 re-rolls!!

everyone moves forward!
only 2 ships from each fleet able to fire
2 Stalker's vs 2 Tigara's
Scout rolls all failed to do anything!
All stealth rolls failed!!!!!

T2 Minbari win ini

1 Shadow scout lowered Tigara stealth, zero minbari scouts worked!!!
4 of the 6 shadow fighter attack 1 Tigara Minbari web comes into effet all it did was take 1 shile of 1 fighter!!
2 shadow fighters dog 2 nials, both shadow fighters killed at end of fighter phase! (took both dogfights to do it)
2 Stalkers fired at 1 Tigara, 15 beam hits 5 crits, it went BOOM! 3 nials die to explosion and other Tigara damaged! +crit with drift!!!
2 flights of nials recoved by Morshin!

T3 Shadow win ini

Shadow scouts manage to reduce stealth on Ashinta, Tigara. Minbari scouts manage 1 stealth reduce on a scout!
2Dogfights Minbari went fo over kill with 2 nials vs 1 shadow! Shadow fighters dead!
4Nials attack a shadow scout taking its shields and 1 damage!
Drifting Tigara hit a Stalker taking it shields!
Ashinta damaged from Shadow scout!

T4 Shadow win ini

Shadow ship decides to hide behind 1 of the 2 asteroid fields!
Sharkaan Moves forward right into field of fire where it can shoot just about everything bar Shadowship!
comment from "shut_up_hippie!" Not very Sporting! after he just hid his shadowship!!!
Minbari Stealth rolls....... why did i bother taking them!!!
2 Stalkers shot at undamaged Sharkaan, before crit hits 40 damage, with a vital 6 -LOTS

i called it there, Shadow win,

Stalkers Working as a squad with the extra AD and Stealth (apart from my abismall dice rolling) definate improvment!

Minbari Web for what little effect it did was quiet nice (but again abismall rolling).

Should of taken more beam weapoons!! Live and learn.
 
I was hoping to hear about results with the Stalker! Thank you.

Questions:

1). Do you think the Stalker is too powerful? Stealth to 3+, perhaps?

2). Was it fun, or frustrating?
 
My dice rolling made it VERY frustrating!!!

Mainly fun though for a Battle lvl ship compared to Vorlons which i play TOO flippin powerful with trip damage and 4 AD Beam, especially when squadroned!!

Having Shields Dodge Self repair and Stealth as well as SM i mean what else can you give it to try and keep it alive now! (and dont say more Dam)!
 
5 Battle played on Monday.

EA:
Warlock
Omega
Omega
Avenger
Hyperion

Narn:
G'vrahn
2 G'Lan
T'loth
Var'Nic

Annihilation, Narn victory.

Points from the game (I was the EA admiral).

The 4+ CBD can be a very powerful ability, the Var'nic just would not die even when attacked by an Omega and fighter swarm (The warlock may have fired secondaries at it). I did eventually get it, but it took a very long time.

G'Vrahn was still pretty deadly and difficult to kill even with the reduced abilities. (Having both a lightly damaged Warlock and an untouched Omega de-crewed to high rolling 6,5 triple damage criticals didn't help).

Using the CQ9+ fire at full effect TTT special order only happened once in 3 attempts (all ships were CQ4) when I was having initiative problems. The extra shot did minor damage and did not affect the outcome of the battle.
 
6 Skirmish, Narn vs. Drazi, New Rules; vs. Ripple.

Drazi fleet:
-- Firehawk
-- Guardhawk
-- Sunhawk
-- Strikehawk
-- Warbird
-- Solarhawk

Narn fleet:

-- 2 Ka'Toc
-- 2 T'Rakk
-- 2 Thentus

Primary Objective of Test: Evaluate Track That Target (TTT), Drazi Attack Run.
Secondary Objective of Test: Evaluate impact of Narn Close Blast Doors

Scenario: Space Superiority, 4x6 table, random terrain rolls. Random rolls almost made a perfect gas giant with a ring; the planet was in the center of one of the two deployment areas, the ring dominated the other one, going right through the center of the triangular deployment area.

Deployment: Narn win, ask Drazi to setup first. They choose a somewhat broad formation partially behind the planet. Narn set up close to the Drazi's right flank. Frazi set up independently on the Narn's right-center position.

Ruled a meeting engagement, Drazi initiative is considered +2.

T1: Narn win. Manoeuvering. Drazi turn right to address the position of the Narn fleet. Drazi Warbird and Strikehawk all stop to avoid closing ranges to Narn Ka'Toc beams. No fire exchanged.

T2: Narn win again. After a movement by the Guardhawk to sink, a T'Rakk comes up for a shot. Sunhawk boresights it. The other T'Rakk realizes it can get into pulse range if it does an All Power to Engines, and does so. Wild pile-on ensues, with T'Rakk attracting the Firehawk, Solarhawk, the Warbird and the Strikehawk. One Thentus can't make range, but the boresight weaponry of the Ka'Tocs and the other Thentus make the Warbird. Frazi close to fight but cannot engage. CBD used on almost everything except the one T'Rakk, which has become a fire magnet because of it.

Narn chip away at the Warbird, killing about 60% of it, but not enough to cripple or skeleton. Sunhawk takes a bit of pounding, but nothing drastic. Drazi's dodge rolls are bad, but CBD rolls are good, and the Narn generate zero criticals a quite a few bulkheads, so it averages out. Drazi rolls are fairly average, too, until the Firehawk opens up and rolls a ridiculous string of 14+ Solar Cannon hits. The Particle Cannon does a lot of hits, too, exploding it.

We did some math, then --- if the thing had new Narn Close Blast Doors on, it had a 50% chance that it would have lived through that. It was absolutely disgusting. T'Rakks under new CBD are just gross. At Skirmish level, they're almost unkillable. At least the T'Loth is Lumbering and 1/45 -- these aren't.

Sky Serpent launched.

We dumped the new Narn CBD rule at that point.

Net: Drazi kills a T'Rakk by using Solar Cannons. Narn seriously damages a Warbird, wings a Sunhawk.

T3: Drazi win. Narn, having trouble setting up shots, CBD the T'Rakk and drive it right into the middle of the fray. The Solarhawk exits the fray to set up its next shot, gets lined up by a Thentus (not in range of its ). Guardhawk moves to support position. Narn, running out of sinks, pile up on the Sunhawk and Solarhawk; get a lot of side pulse Twin Arrays on the Sunhawk. Firehawk, Warbird, and Strikehawk get to the side and behind the Narn formation, and line up a Ka'Toc. CBD used almost everywhere on Drazi side except the Strikehawk; CBD used by the Narn on the T'Rakk and the lined-up Ka'Toc. Frazi decide that since everything is protected, might as well attack the Guardhawk's Hull 4 directly. Sky Serpent moves to fire upon (not dogfight) the Frazi.

2 Frazi die to AF and Sky Serpent fire. Frazi strike accomplishes almost nothing.

The wealth of side pulse from the Narn are still largely out of range; and the Strikehawk, Firehawk and Warbird seriously damage (14:15) a Ka'Toc. The rest of the Narn cast tries to nickel and dime the Sunhawk while whiffing on the Solarhawk. It's all very pathetic until the last Thentus fires, rolling a 6-5 off a burst beam to turn an already damaged Sunhawk into a ticking time bomb, throwing the last 3:3 to cripple and remove the boresight arc off the Warbird, and damaging the Solarhawk.

T4: Narn win ... and elect to go first! The damaged/almost crippled Ka'Toc moved to avoid the Attack Run strike that may kill/cripple it before it can get the Close Blast Doors special action down. The Firehawk then attempts the Attack Run order itself and fails it. Instead, it maneouvers a little further behind the Narn and concedes no shot this turn (this move is still controversial between Ripple and I). The Drazi seem to have won the positional battle, but the T'Rakk hits a Come About to get behind the Drazi Warbird/Strikehawk/Firehawk fleet element, and positional balance is restored. The Solarhawk is facing away from the fight at this point, so it stats the battle pass back, circling behind the explosion zone of the ticking-timebomb-Sunhawk. It fails a come about, however; this would have given it something to shoot at. Two Thentus are both challenged by the choice of avoiding the explosion and going for shots --- both choose the explosion and getting decent shots. The Strikehawk follows in and picks a target, the Warbird moves to position and hopes to repair its boresight. The Narn have foregone special actions on the whole, as they are getting side pulse shots everywhere.

The Frazi now move to intercept the Sky Serpent. However, the Serpent was loaned Antifighter by the Guardhawk. One Frazi bites it as a result, but the lone Frazi does win the dogfight and kills the Sky Serpent.

The explosion goes off, but its only 6 dice worth, and the Thentii take glancing blows. The T'Rakk takes out the last 4 points on the Warbird, and otherwise whiffs. The Strikehawk then takes a look at one Thentus and blasts it, for an Adrift 10:7 damage, and some other stuff. There isn't a lot of other fire as the Solars can't find targets because of how they were facing last turn and their activation orders. The Narn keep chipping, with the combined weight of the fleet --- one Thentus, and two Ka'Toc crippling the Guardhawk, which came out from CBD to fire. The last Thentus gets 3:3 on the Solarhawk through 2 weapon systems, crippling it.

T5: The Narn win again, and decide to move first. The Narn player observes the new ram is going to let the Guardhawk get revenge on something, and gets the Ka'Toc out of the Guardhawk's front arc. The Guardhawk then rams the last target remaining, the half-dead Thentus, annihilating it.

The one remaining Thentus then pursued the Solarhawk that was trying to turn around. The Firehawk, having few targets, turned in and went for a TTT on the healthy Ka'Toc, and hit it. The T'Rakk pursued, while the Strikehawk chased the Ka'Toc as well. The Ka'Toc in question Closed Doors and braced for the worst.

One Thentus finished its task and killed the wounded Solarhawk.

We then made a rules mistake .... Ripple rolled the TTT beams into the fresh Ka'Toc, but only rolled half the dice of the system. He then proceded to have the Firehawk roll up its second massive beamstream with the Solar Cannons, doing 17:14 on two Solar Cannon beamdice and two Particle Cannon dice, crippling it. The Strikehawk also finishes off the other Ka'Toc. The T'Rakk kept firing away, however, and between the side pulse arrays of the Thentus and Ka'Tocs (while it lasted!) was getting badly beaten up. If he had rolled the full beamset, this ship is likely dead.

But, it wouldn't have even been close, it turns out, under full Narn CBD, which would have been worth another 4 damage saved and 1 crew.

At this point, it was one fairly OK Firehawk and one badly damaged Strikehawk against a Frazi, a Crippled Ka'Toc, a fresh T'Rakk, and a pretty fresh Thentus.

T6: Narn win.

The Strikehawk disengages to try to give itself an arc to work with, this leaves the Firehawk trying for an Attack Run. It fails. The Narn pursue the Strikehawk with the T'Rakk, the Firehawk is chased after the failed action by the sluggish Ka'Toc and the Thentus, which proceeds to damage it.

T7: I have run out of notes here, but the results were that the Frazi and the T'Rakk finish off the badly wounded Strikehawk for not much damage, and the Firehawk can't shake the tailing Thentus.

Drazi concedes.

Summary:

It ended with a Frazi, one slightly damaged T'Rakk and Thentus, and a crippled Ka'Toc against a moderately damaged Firehawk. The Ka'Toc shouldn't have been there, granted, but even with the two ships, given that the Narn were in the Firehawk's aft arc, it was over.

It was thought that the Narn were the luckier in the fight, as the Drazi dodge rolls were poor and the Narn routinely won even initiative contests. This was countered somewhat by Drazi luck on both Firehawk Solar Cannon savoes and getting the ram of the Guardhawk to pull off -- limited luck, but exactly where you need it.

The Drazi succeeded in Attack Running once in 4 tries, but it did almost zero damage. TTT, on the other hand, got lucky and wasted an otherwise safe Ka'Toc. It succeeded once in three tries, if I remember right.

The virtually-guaranteed Guardhawk ram for a Thentus kill in Turn 5 left a REALLY bad taste in my mouth. I can't tell you how much I HATE this rule. It's another reason why small ships are better than big ones, and it makes me want to barf, because it feels cheap. Why? You get punished for succeeding too much: "You're crippling your opponent and winning? Stupid rookie, now you're going to eat ship!". I can't stand this new ramming rule. Ugh.

I find the new Narn CBD rule to be gross and overpowered. We need something else.

We screwed up the rule on TTT, but I don't like this version of it, either. It's both too hard to pull off, too inflexible, and allows for too many guns, all at the same time. I have real worries about the rule as written being used by Omegas and Hyperions. The original interpretation we had on it wasn't that bad (bore with opportunities to fire off-bore). I still think the Drazi need this at CQ 8. The rest can have it at CQ 9.

Drazi attack run is still a huge gamble, but I'm not sure I've seen it used to its maximum potential. I still don't like the Beam-confirms/No Twin-Link mechanic, the damage becomes way too small. However, at least you can still fire if you miss the special action. Thank you for removing the collision from the rule, however.

I'm sure Ripple will have his impressions later.
 
And here I was avoiding comment...

Okay... couple of things aren't quite right.

T4 - I don't agree on this one as far as positioning goes, but I don't have his notes and its back a bit for me.

T7 - The strikehawk is the ship that survives not the firehawk. This left a damaged strikehawk against the Narn with three ships and a fighter flight.

Basic comments -

Drazi are helpless against fighters, and they did matter, unlike the way it's written up. A big element in maneuver given the number of hull 4 ships. The escort does help, but just isn't tough enough to survive, and can't fire under CBD, so is basically a non-ship. At hull 4/dodge 5+ and 12 damage points, CBD is a necessity even against other patrol ships.

TTT is fairly rigid, and you often better off going for Come About. That doesn't kill it for me, but I preferred the previous version due to it allowing a bore sighted ship to 're-target' if it's primary target was destroyed so you didn't waste firepower. This is a basic ability of other fleets that is vastly underestimated.

Attack Run - basically a pretty weak order... your better off going CBD and trying to find firing position for the follow turn. Again... use this against a hull 5/interceptor ship or a hull 6 ship and you effectively accomplish nothing unless using a Solar Cannon.

Ramming - I actually completely disagree with Chris on this one. I thought the ram in this case was very flavor full and appropriate. Cripple without skeleton is not that common, and the opposed check is not a bad limiter. Small ships can do it, but if the Thentus in question had not been half dead to start with, this wouldn't have accomplished much of anything.

Narn only CBD - too much, nature of a d6 game. Single bonus on the die has huge swing effect. Have it limit crits, and you accomplish what you want... this way, you just make the smaller ships big enough that they can't be killed easily and leave the larger ships with all their old problems.

Ripple
 
New Psi Corp special rule and boarding;

As pointed out several times by people the Corp is more elitist and doesn't go into direct conflicts as such. They lack assault capabilities. And to that extent I find this new Psi interogation rule impossible to achieve.

1; we have no breaching pods with which to "normally" capture vessels.

2; Only the Shadow Omega Or Nemisis could manage such a job and it would require the use of the special action "launch all breaching pods and fighter special rule" Which the Hunter couldn't use at all since it has 0 troops, This to me sees abit wrong?

3; And this is what I want clarifying really does it apply if I use allied ships to capture an enemy ship? As it is seems unlikely to achieve it though normal Psi Corp ships.

So suggestions please?
 
1: most fleets dont manage captures with pods (apart from gaim) as they dont have enough.

2: thats how most people do capture ships and using your biggest ships seems the best bet. I agree the hunter could probably do with either atroop or the shadow no boarding special rule.

3: dont see why not, allies are part of you fleet so hand them over to fleet command. or they may have teeps on board to make sure the crews do as told
 
That narn brick can capture ships quiet easily lol and so can the minbari.

Yeah the hunter seems half hearted no troops but it can be boarded :(

I'll try and grab something with a allied ship then.
 
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