[OTU] "The Imperium rules *space*"... um, how?

[EDG]

I never got this about the OTU. How exactly does the Imperium rule "space"? I don't recall reading much about Imperial patrols stopping ships and checking cargoes. It seems that the Imperium has jurisdiction within Starports (within the extrality line around them), but what about outside? Can Imperial marines chase a suspect out of the starport and into the planet's jurisdiction? If someone commits a murder on a private vessel in jumpspace, is that a job for the Imperial Police Force (or whatever the equivalent is) to figure out whodunnit, or is it a job for the local police at the system the ship arrives at?

Who's piloting the System Defence Boats - is that a planet's own navy, or the Imperial Navy? Can a planet even HAVE its own navy? Who's doing customs checks, is that a planet's customs and excise officials, or the Imperium's? If a planet uses nukes in a war on its surface, does the Imperium have a right to step in, or do they only care if nukes are used in space? Do mainworlds own the worlds in their own planetary system, or does the Imperium have first dibs on them (which raises the spectre of the Imperium getting away with exploiting a system where there's a pre-industrial mainworld)?

More disturbingly, does the Imperium basically blackmail a planet into joining it in order to extort taxes from it and to let it have access to space? What if a planet within the Imperium wants to leave it? What does it lose?

And who actually is an Imperial citizen? Are the planets like states in the US, who agree to be run by the overall federal government of the Imperium? That'd make most sense when it comes to citizens of those planets joining things like the Imperial Armed Forces or Scouts. Or are planets more like independent countries with Imperial Embassies on them (in which case, where the heck is the Imperium itself)? Can you get planets that have completely joined the Imperium so that there's no independent planetary authority (i.e. it's ALL imperial territory)? I've never had that impression from the adventures and background, but that would make the most sense to me to explain how the Imperium is supposed to work.

Where do Imperial Nobles come from? Are they members of individual planets that have rescinded their own "nationalities" and sworn allegiance to the higher power of the Imperium? Or are they somehow Imperial by birth?

Lots of questions I know, but it boils down to... what the heck IS the Imperium really, and how does it actually work in practice? It just seems hard to reconcile this huge random jumble of societies with any kind of coherent whole. I'm pretty familiar with the Imperium but I don't think I've ever really seen these questions answered fully.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Can Imperial marines chase a suspect out of the starport and into the planet's jurisdiction?

Not as far as I'm aware, no.

If someone commits a murder on a private vessel in jumpspace, is that a job for the Imperial Police Force (or whatever the equivalent is) to figure out whodunnit, or is it a job for the local police at the system the ship arrives at?

Imperial Ministry of Justice investigators, as the crime is "discovered" on Imperial territory (i.e. when the ship lands at the starport).

Who's piloting the System Defence Boats - is that a planet's own navy, or the Imperial Navy?

Normally the local planetary navy, but it's possible that it could also be the IN (especially in interdicted systems, although the Scouts could be operating them in an interdicted system, too).

Can a planet even HAVE its own navy?

Yup, it's there in the CT/MT rules - I'll look up the references for it.

Who's doing customs checks, is that a planet's customs and excise officials, or the Imperium's?

The planet's to ensure local taxation/tariffs are met.

If a planet uses nukes in a war on its surface, does the Imperium have a right to step in, or do they only care if nukes are used in space?

The Imperium reserves the right to use nukes, thus it would step in regardless of where the nukes are used (i.e. surface or space).

Do mainworlds own the worlds in their own planetary system, or does the Imperium have first dibs on them (which raises the spectre of the Imperium getting away with exploiting a system where there's a pre-industrial mainworld)?

Uhm dunno Normally the mainworld owns all the bodies in the system, I would think.

does the Imperium basically blackmail a planet into joining it in order to extort taxes from it and to let it have access to space?

Dunno as around the time of the CT/MGT setting the Imperium isn't really expanding. Immediately after the founding of the 3I the policy was to isolate worlds to forced them to join - no trade, no communications etc. Then if that didn't work use the military option.

What if a planet within the Imperium wants to leave it? What does it lose?

Basically it loses the backing of the 3I if it ever gets into trouble, and access to loads of trade. Essentially the planet could die of lack of trade.

Are the planets like states in the US, who agree to be run by the overall federal government of the Imperium?

Very close, IMO.

Can you get planets that have completely joined the Imperium so that there's no independent planetary authority (i.e. it's ALL imperial territory)?

I suppose technically any interdicted/Red Zone world is 100% Imperial controlled space/planet surface, but as for actually being directly governed by the 3I I would suggest that worlds with a Captive government (i.e. essentially a military controlled planet) would fit the bill. But beyond that, no, I can't think of any directly governed worlds.

Where do Imperial Nobles come from? Are they members of individual planets that have rescinded their own "nationalities" and sworn allegiance to the higher power of the Imperium? Or are they somehow Imperial by birth?

Nobles are either created by the Emperor or belong to a long line of nobles created by one of the previous emperors. I suppose a noble could be Imperially noble as a result of being "locally" noble, but that would still need the Emperor to say "alright mushty, have a shiney badge and bendy sword and I'll let you call yourself <insert title>". Sort of thing

what the heck IS the Imperium really, and how does it actually work in practice? It just seems hard to reconcile this huge random jumble of societies with any kind of coherent whole.

It's all there in the books of the previous editions </flippancy> Seriously though, yes, it is difficult to get an overall picture of the 3I and all the related articles have never been put into a giant Third Imperium book <hint hint, MP >.

 

[EDG]

Can Imperial marines chase a suspect out of the starport and into the planet's jurisdiction?

Not as far as I'm aware, no.

So what happens then...? Does the Imperium impose sanctions on the planet until it gives up the suspect? Can the suspect claim asylum on the planet (presumably he can't leave the planet though (even if he doesn't leave via the starport), cos when he's in space he's in the Imperium's territory)?

Imperial Ministry of Justice investigators, as the crime is "discovered" on Imperial territory (i.e. when the ship lands at the starport).

OK... but where's the Imperial Ministry of Justice? Is there a big Imperial Justice HQ on some Core world, with branches in the starports of every planet? If so, would even a type E starport have one? If it didn't, then where's the imperial justice in that system?

Can a planet even HAVE its own navy?

Yup, it's there in the CT/MT rules - I'll look up the references for it.

So a planet can theoretically have its own Navy to defend itself from Imperial interference (granted, it'd probably lose, but...)?

Who's doing customs checks, is that a planet's customs and excise officials, or the Imperium's?

The planet's to ensure local taxation/tariffs are met.

So who's collecting Imperial taxes then? And where do those taxes go?

If a planet uses nukes in a war on its surface, does the Imperium have a right to step in, or do they only care if nukes are used in space?

The Imperium reserves the right to use nukes, thus it would step in regardless of where the nukes are used (i.e. surface or space).

Even on a world with an X starport or a Red zone that isn't part of the Imperium?

Do mainworlds own the worlds in their own planetary system, or does the Imperium have first dibs on them (which raises the spectre of the Imperium getting away with exploiting a system where there's a pre-industrial mainworld)?

Uhm dunno Normally the mainworld owns all the bodies in the system, I would think.

I half wonder if all the Imperial bases and embassies and Naval academies and so on would actually be off the mainworld, on another planet in the system (where maybe the Imperials have jurisdiction or have negotiated with the mainworld to have that planet as their territory)...

does the Imperium basically blackmail a planet into joining it in order to extort taxes from it and to let it have access to space?

Dunno as around the time of the CT/MGT setting the Imperium isn't really expanding. Immediately after the founding of the 3I the policy was to isolate worlds to forced them to join - no trade, no communications etc. Then if that didn't work use the military option.

So the Imperium basically decides whether the world's borders are open or not, and whether it has access to space? And they're only open if the world's society agrees to its terms? Charming... (and is it me or is that somewhat reminiscent of Israel's relation with Palestine? Not wanting to starting anything political here, just making an observation of something possibly similar).

What if a planet within the Imperium wants to leave it? What does it lose?

Basically it loses the backing of the 3I if it ever gets into trouble, and access to loads of trade. Essentially the planet could die of lack of trade.

Would it? From the sounds of it, it'd lose access to space (even interplanetary space in its own system? Or just access to other systems?). If it didn't though - if it could still send ships out to ply the spaceways - then why would they lose trade? Couldn't they trade as an independent society? After all, the Imperium trades with worlds outside of its borders (doesn't it?) - couldn't the planet just be treated as an independent/non-aligned world?

And even if it did lose trade, couldn't it just adapt to being a closed economy? (Modern Earth isn't exactly dying from lack of interstellar trade...!)

Are the planets like states in the US, who agree to be run by the overall federal government of the Imperium?

Very close, IMO.

So do all planets in the Imperium agree to certain over-arching laws and "federal" taxes?

Can you get planets that have completely joined the Imperium so that there's no independent planetary authority (i.e. it's ALL imperial territory)?

I suppose technically any interdicted/Red Zone world is 100% Imperial controlled space/planet surface, but as for actually being directly governed by the 3I I would suggest that worlds with a Captive government (i.e. essentially a military controlled planet) would fit the bill. But beyond that, no, I can't think of any directly governed worlds.

Does seem to be an odd omission, I think... why would it be military controlled though? Couldn't it be run by a feudal nobility?

Nobles are either created by the Emperor or belong to a long line of nobles created by one of the previous emperors. I suppose a noble could be Imperially noble as a result of being "locally" noble, but that would still need the Emperor to say "alright mushty, have a shiney badge and bendy sword and I'll let you call yourself <insert title>". Sort of thing

OK, but then does the new noble have any loyalty to his old society? Or is he fully Imperial now? I'd guess he's the latter.

Seriously though, yes, it is difficult to get an overall picture of the 3I and all the related articles have never been put into a giant Third Imperium book <hint hint, MP >.

That's partly why I asked the questions (and partly to give newcomers to Traveller something to think about) . Ta for the answers, hopefully this will get the ball rolling!

 

[GhostWolf69]

Sorry I don' have the inside scoop on this but personally I myself try to answer questions such as these (and yes they do pop up from time to time) with thinking this:

"What would this be like in the Roman Empire?"

The analogy cannot be stressed enough if you ask me. The Empire is VAST, communications are SLOW. The only way is to leave a LOT of room for local rules (Imperial/Roman Rulers in the Region/System) to make their own decisions and policies.

Is the Empire blackmailing systems to join them? Basically yes. It's a sort of racketeering business on a galactic scale. This is depending on who you ask of course. The "First Survey" book from T4 did a pretty decent job in describing how the Empire contacted new worlds. (I think it was that book... or maybe it was the "Milieu 0" book itself?) And it is more or less copied from the "Foundation" by Asimov. So they can keep their government (and religion) and do whatever they like, as long as they a) pays tax and b) recognizes the Emperor as the ultimate ruler. I would say that anything outside Star port falls under local authorities. BUT if it is important enough there will probably be an Imperial Agent or two backing them up (running the show).

Imperial moving in 'en mass' is probably completely legal, but is extremely bad form diplomacy wise and the systems own rule will most likely raise loud objections through proper channels.

Do local systems have their own fleet? Well... I'd say yes and no. There are no Fleets inside the Empire that are not (at least by lip service) Imperial. But given that the local Imperial Ruler might view this fleet as "his" more than "the emperors" even if he will never admit to it... Sure there can be cases where local Imperial Military are not very happy with the Empire etc. (Again, think Rome, popular Legions abroad that don't like the changes back home, local Roman general is responsible for his Province always choosing his own province first and the best for Rome second every time he can get away with it.)

Jurisdiction... now I have no idea but here is how I would run it. If it is a local crime and/ or local matter that has no effects outside the system, the Empire will most likely leave it to the Planet Authorities to pick it up. If the crime has an effect that stretches over several systems I would say the Empire steps in. They could also step in if they feel the Empire is threatened somehow, like say a local troublemaker starting a rebellion.

Can a world Step out of the Empire? I don't know... I would say HELL NO! That would be rebellion and against the spirit of the Empire. I mean if they allowed systems to step out after they got their star port etc. They wouldn't have much of an empire now would they? Then again, if it was economically an extremely bad move to keep them, if the navy had more important things to do, if the investments in the system were so low they could be neglected, I guess you could allow it... but then you'd have to ask; "What's the difference?" Sure you could allow local Authorities to 'say' they were autonomous, but on paper the system could still be part of the Empire, it's just that the Empire has no presence there, nor do they care. Again, think Rome.

So... you have a huge empire with an Emperor that hardly hears any news in time to make a decision, and is more preoccupied with court intrigue and developing the Core than ruling the Fringe.

You have local Dukes etc. who are the Emperors nephews and cousins and they are responsible for ruling Sectors more or less as they see fit. Below them you have other Imperial Nobles who act as appointed rules over subsectors and important systems. They report the Dukes and Arch Dukes, and yes they are all related in a huge Noble tree, where the older and more inbred your lineage is the better. Some "new" Nobles do pop up from time to time of course, when the Empire feels the need of creating a ruling Caste in a region where there is none, or when wealthy families manage to buy their way in. But in general these people are of Noble stock from the Core.

And below these aristocrats and dilatants you have truly local World Rulers, who are born and raised on the Planet and allowed to Rule the planet as they see fit as long as the Empire gets its due, and are allowed to trade, recruit troops, mine resources, etc from them.

Last but not least, just to complicate matters even more we should not forget the Mega Corps... they have a power of their own. Sometimes with military or paramilitary backup. Huge economic powers and almost fleets in their own right... They all say they serve the Empire though, but they still have private resources to deal with local 'pirate' and 'protect' their investments. Inside a Mega Corp are almost like inside a local system. There could be rules and laws that apply to Employees etc.

Long rant, maybe only half of it makes sense, probably even less than that are "from the book" but I felt like sharing the way I do it.

/wolf

 

[EDG]

Given what is basically the Imperium blackmailing worlds into joining them... where the heck is all the rebellion? Do all worlds have any ideas of "manifest destiny" crushed out of them? Does the Imperium say "Sorry folks, but space is ours, and you WILL kowtow to us if you want to be part of it"?

Why the heck should any world just agree to give up any rights to access to interstellar space on its own terms? It sounds like the only rebellious worlds are on the borders (esp. the Marches and the Rim), but I guess every other world has had its own ambitions crushed out of them...

 

[rust]

The GURPS Traveller books, especially Star Mercs (on the military side
of Imperial rule and the Rules of War) and Starports (on the relations
between Imperial installations and the "locals") plus Behind the Claw (on
planetary navies), contain a lot of information on these subjects, but un-
fortunately I do not have them here right now.

 

[tneva82]

Given what is basically the Imperium blackmailing worlds into joining them... where the heck is all the rebellion? Do all worlds have any ideas of "manifest destiny" crushed out of them? Does the Imperium say "Sorry folks, but space is ours, and you WILL kowtow to us if you want to be part of it"?

Well for one thing is being part of Imperium really bad thing? Okay so you have to pay taxes and acknowledge that Emperor who might never even heard of your planet is ultimate ruler but otherwise your goverment and religion stays same. In return you'll be getting traders and whatnot from other worlds which is bad thing how?

Secondly. What a bloody hell does independent planet stand chance against Imperium with how-many-batRons-and-troops? Yeah I'll rebel and send my puny system defence fleet against your multiple ships each who might take out my fleet alone! Yeah that sounds smart strategy! Plus likely due to long term stellar trade planet could be DEPENDANT on that trade which gets blocked.

Doesn't sound like scenario that is inviting to rebellion unless taxes are bleeding your planet to death in which case it's slow death from taxes or quick death from rebellion choise.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Can Imperial marines chase a suspect out of the starport and into the planet's jurisdiction?

Not as far as I'm aware, no.

So what happens then...? Does the Imperium impose sanctions on the planet until it gives up the suspect? Can the suspect claim asylum on the planet (presumably he can't leave the planet though (even if he doesn't leave via the starport), cos when he's in space he's in the Imperium's territory)?

There would probably be some sort of MoJ over ride rule/law or extradition process.

Imperial Ministry of Justice investigators, as the crime is "discovered" on Imperial territory (i.e. when the ship lands at the starport).

OK... but where's the Imperial Ministry of Justice? Is there a big Imperial Justice HQ on some Core world,

Allegedly, yes

with branches in the starports of every planet?

That would be a reasonable working option.

If so, would even a type E starport have one? If it didn't, then where's the imperial justice in that system?

It would have to be brought in from the nearest system with a MoJ office, I suppose.

Can a planet even HAVE its own navy?

Yup, it's there in the CT/MT rules - I'll look up the references for it.

So a planet can theoretically have its own Navy to defend itself from Imperial interference (granted, it'd probably lose, but...)?

Yup. There are planetary, subsector and sector navies.

The naval forces within the lmperium are divided into three general categories: lmperial forces, devoted to the central ruling lmperium and answering only to it; subsector forces, which patrol their individual subsectors, filling the gaps that the lmperial forces cannot handle; and local (planetary) forces raised to protect individual worlds. The distinctions between such forces are primarily those of size, resources, and duties.

Who's doing customs checks, is that a planet's customs and excise officials, or the Imperium's?

The planet's to ensure local taxation/tariffs are met.

So who's collecting Imperial taxes then? And where do those taxes go?

Local C&E collect taxes on behalf of the local government and the 3I; the 3I's share is sent on/forwarded/banked for the 3I to collect.

If a planet uses nukes in a war on its surface, does the Imperium have a right to step in, or do they only care if nukes are used in space?

The Imperium reserves the right to use nukes, thus it would step in regardless of where the nukes are used (i.e. surface or space).

Even on a world with an X starport or a Red zone that isn't part of the Imperium?

Nukes being used on a planet outside the 3I isn't the 3I's problem, unless the nukes are being used close to 3I assets/worlds/the border, then the 3I might step in if there's a high enough perceived threat to the 3I. Basically within the 3I's borders only the 3I has the right to use nukes; 3I member worlds don't.

What if a planet within the Imperium wants to leave it? What does it lose?

Basically it loses the backing of the 3I if it ever gets into trouble, and access to loads of trade. Essentially the planet could die of lack of trade.

Would it? From the sounds of it, it'd lose access to space (even interplanetary space in its own system? Or just access to other systems?).

The 3I could blockade the entire system if it wanted to, or blockade the mainworld only.

If it didn't though - if it could still send ships out to ply the spaceways - then why would they lose trade? Couldn't they trade as an independent society? After all, the Imperium trades with worlds outside of its borders (doesn't it?) - couldn't the planet just be treated as an independent/non-aligned world?

That would depend on whether the 3I applies pressure to other systems to stop trading with the world in question. Any system inside the borders of the 3I is going to find trade difficult/impossible if the 3I says "don't trade with them" to all other systems in the sector. But yes, if the system is close enough to a border with other systems on the other side, it could trade "outwards" (if you like).

And even if it did lose trade, couldn't it just adapt to being a closed economy? (Modern Earth isn't exactly dying from lack of interstellar trade...!)

Probably!

Are the planets like states in the US, who agree to be run by the overall federal government of the Imperium?

Very close, IMO.

So do all planets in the Imperium agree to certain over-arching laws and "federal" taxes?

Yup, exactly. The systems pay taxes to the 3I for protection by Imperial forces, 3I laws can over ride local laws but my feeling is that there would have to be certain conditions that need to be met (i.e. throwing nukes about). Something like an assassin who tried to kill the Emperor would not be helped by local law; the 3I would go in using some Imperial law or warrant to get the guy.

Can you get planets that have completely joined the Imperium so that there's no independent planetary authority (i.e. it's ALL imperial territory)?

I suppose technically any interdicted/Red Zone world is 100% Imperial controlled space/planet surface, but as for actually being directly governed by the 3I I would suggest that worlds with a Captive government (i.e. essentially a military controlled planet) would fit the bill. But beyond that, no, I can't think of any directly governed worlds.

Does seem to be an odd omission, I think... why would it be military controlled though? Couldn't it be run by a feudal nobility?

I suppose it could be - I can't think of a reason to stop that from happening.

Nobles are either created by the Emperor or belong to a long line of nobles created by one of the previous emperors. I suppose a noble could be Imperially noble as a result of being "locally" noble, but that would still need the Emperor to say "alright mushty, have a shiney badge and bendy sword and I'll let you call yourself <insert title>". Sort of thing

OK, but then does the new noble have any loyalty to his old society? Or is he fully Imperial now? I'd guess he's the latter.

The noble would have to represent the interests of the people he is over at court (planetary, subsector, sector, domain or Imperial courts) *and* balance that against the needs of higher authorities (i.e. Domain Duke, Emperor).

Seriously though, yes, it is difficult to get an overall picture of the 3I and all the related articles have never been put into a giant Third Imperium book <hint hint, MP >.

That's partly why I asked the questions (and partly to give newcomers to Traveller something to think about) . Ta for the answers, hopefully this will get the ball rolling!

You're welcome but bear in mind a lot of what I've said above is *my* vision of how these things work. although some of my views can be backed up with references from the canon books.

 

[Golan2072]

Given what is basically the Imperium blackmailing worlds into joining them... where the heck is all the rebellion? Do all worlds have any ideas of "manifest destiny" crushed out of them? Does the Imperium say "Sorry folks, but space is ours, and you WILL kowtow to us if you want to be part of it"?

Why the heck should any world just agree to give up any rights to access to interstellar space on its own terms? It sounds like the only rebellious worlds are on the borders (esp. the Marches and the Rim), but I guess every other world has had its own ambitions crushed out of them...

The Ziru Sirka had a habit of crushing unruly worlds into submission. The Third Imperium probably balances its "stick" with a "carrot" - that is, it doesn't only blackmail worlds into joining, it also bribes them into it. If you join the Imperium you'll get high-volume trade, military aid against other (non-imperial) worlds, and possibly even tech aid...

 

[EDG]

Well for one thing is being part of Imperium really bad thing? Okay so you have to pay taxes and acknowledge that Emperor who might never even heard of your planet is ultimate ruler but otherwise your goverment and religion stays same. In return you'll be getting traders and whatnot from other worlds which is bad thing how?

So you have to pay taxes that you'll see no benefit from to a VERY distant ruler that doesn't give a rats arse about your random little rockball, is why . Why should a society have to do things the Imperium's way and on the Imperium's terms? What the heck is that going to DO to a society that's just reaching out into space? Can you imagine what would happen if we got out of the Solar System to discover that not only all the nearby systems were already colonised by someone else, but that they also want to shut down our exploration and deny us any rights to things on our own terms? There's nothing that pisses people off more than being denied things that they feel they have a right to have...

Secondly. What a bloody hell does independent planet stand chance against Imperium with how-many-batRons-and-troops? Yeah I'll rebel and send my puny system defence fleet against your multiple ships each who might take out my fleet alone! Yeah that sounds smart strategy! Plus likely due to long term stellar trade planet could be DEPENDANT on that trade which gets blocked.

Or maybe it isn't. Maybe it doesn't need interstellar trade at all. Earth doesn't, after all. And that's great, the Imperium crushes all rebellion and dissent and free will in its territory, lovely!

Seriously, painted like this, the Imperium's actually a really nasty empire. But then, a secretive rebellion/underground would make for an interesting adventure opportunity...

 

[rust]

A few lines from the GT core rulebook:

"The Imperium controls and / or regulates:
- All interstellar commerce and relations within its boundaries.
- Any planetary commerce and relations that affect the control and / or
regulation of the above.
- Anything that constitutes a threat to the stability or security of the Im-
perium as a whole or in part.
- Any planetary or near-planetary bodies necessary to control and / or
regulate the above.
If this sounds vague and open to interpretation, it is. If it sounds undemo-
cratic, it is. It does make for a relatively quiet and profitable climate for
the empire as a whole, however.
It could be said that all Imperial government is military government ..."

So, yes, I think it is a somewhat nasty Imperium, and for many worlds
the best they can hope for is to be ignored by the Imperium.

By the way, this is one reason why I do not use the OTU in my setting,
I dislike to have an aristocratic military dictatorship as the most power-
ful state.

 

[aspqrz]

So who's collecting Imperial taxes then? And where do those taxes go?

They're used to buy Jump Torpedoes capable of making J36 and for research into Empty Hex Jumps by rocks doing a significant fraction of Cee and aimed at inhabited planets :lol:

Don't worry, hang out here long enough and you'll get the joke

Seriously? They go into funding those large ("Trillion Credit Squadron") fleets that carefully avoid noticing Pirate activity or, indeed, carefully avoid doing anything that might suppress Piracy ...

... er ... well ... you might guess that there's no real answer.

The canonistas will tell you of the one true way, a otw that, unfortunately, makes no economic sense. Anyone attempting to argue that it makes no sense will be burnt at the stake ... not necessarily in effigy, either.

Basically, decide what makes most sense to you since, at best, you've probably started another flame war :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just go with what makes sense to YOU.

Phil

 

[tneva82]

So you have to pay taxes that you'll see no benefit from to a VERY distant ruler that doesn't give a rats arse about your random little rockball, is why .

Dunno. Trade, protection given by Imperial navy etc aren't benefits? Beats being bombarded from space to death to me! Lemme see. Death or lots o' $$$ and technological boost(natural side effect of trade). I know which one I would choose.

Why should a society have to do things the Imperium's way and on the Imperium's terms? What the heck is that going to DO to a society that's just reaching out into space?

Dunno. Blockade your planet and prevent them from going elsewhere? Or how you suppose they are going to destroy Imperial Navy?-) The Imperium controls space. How you think they are doing it? With words alone? Nope. They have this big nasty fleet at their disposal. Pretty hard for any invidual planet to match it.

Or maybe it isn't. Maybe it doesn't need interstellar trade at all. Earth doesn't, after all. And that's great, the Imperium crushes all rebellion and dissent and free will in its territory, lovely!

Earth isn't result of space colosination though. We have all the materials we need available and we have large enough industrial base to create everything we need. Do colonies in OTU have those? Planets aren't neccessarily earth-like so they might a) lack needed resources b) not have suitable industrial base to provide all they need.

But hey feel free to try. Just figure out what you are going to do when batron or two comes around...

 

[GhostWolf69]

Given what is basically the Imperium blackmailing worlds into joining them... where the heck is all the rebellion?

In Mega Traveller? Hence the "Rebellion Era".

/wolf

 

[GhostWolf69]

Are the planets like states in the US, who agree to be run by the overall federal government of the Imperium?

Very close, IMO.

Very close but with one major difference. If disaster strikes, a masacre occurs, Mexico invades Texas (or anything else worth talking about at all really) the President, and all citizens in the US will know and respond within minutes.

In Traveller (or Rome ) it would take months or even years.
This calls for much, much greater self-government on a local level.

The Baron of a system would have to react immediately he cannot wait for communications to come through (and back again) to the Sub Sector Capital.

Basically, right then and there, he is Supreme... but still has to consider all the diplomatic complications that could arise from messing to much with Planetary Authorities.

/wolf

 

[Captain Brann]

Hi

I would like to point out the number of countries waiting to join NATO or the European Union.

All of these are happy to give up some control over there own nations to get the advantages of being in a bigger group.
You get some like my own UK who can not decide wither to be in or out, but we know that in the end we have little choice unless we want to join the USA.

Small states can stay that way but bigger ones tend to end up in groups sharing risks and supporting each other, even if it means giving up some things.

I would have thought the 3I would be the same, most worlds would be chafing at the bit to get in, why wount't they.


PS I like the idea of the 3I being more like the Roman empire, Lack of communications and a small group of powerful rulers.

Chris

 

[DE Traveller]

...PS I like the idea of the 3I being more like the Roman empire, Lack of communications and a small group of powerful rulers.

Chris

Yes, I too liked the reference to the Roman empire that GhostWolf69 made and i started thinking and came up with colonial and early America, and also the British colonies of that same period. I've seen this time period referred to in regards to communication, piracy, and travel times but there are parallels to Traveller in regards to how the travel times and communication delays affected politics/government, cultural and lifestyle differences, technology differences and so on. I don't know my Chinese history, but I would assume there are parallels within a country that size.

Gotta go, it is time to do some web surfing and research.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

The Spinward Marches book has a good section on how all this Imperial Membership stuff works. All citizens of Imperial Worlds are also Imperial Citizens. Groups of worlds that join the Imperium usually come in as a County or Duchy (depending on size) with a LOT of autonomy.

 

[vargr1]

In Traveller (or Rome ) it would take months or even years.

Or even longer. The Imperium has been know to allow member planets to go to war with each other.

 

[Baron Sidur Haski]

The Imperium rules Space by being super awesome, of course!