Opinions wanted: 2nd edtition Is it a success

[Skipper]

OK, heres the questions from the non-mongoose players who've actually played a number of games.

1) Is the latest edition Successfull

2) Is it balanced?

3) Are there any obvious breaks in the rules

4) How does the campaighn system revamp look/play

Skipper

 

[Hans Olo]

Hi, in Germany we are still waiting to get a copy of the rules :? .
The local distributors have no idea when the new books will arrive here.
It really starts to annoy me.
So because of this i cant really answer your question, but from the reviews in S&P and the things that were mentioned on the Forum, I'm not sure if the 2 ed is such a huge improvement as everyone seems wanting to believe.
What upsets me the most is that I really still see no reason why to take a big ship.
Well maybe I will see a reason as soon as I get the books, with a little luck I might get them even this year :lol: but I don´t think so.

 

[Lone Gunman]

What upsets me the most is that I really still see no reason why to take a big ship. [/quote}

Which is exactly the same problem I have. Why bother with large ships if I can get a hall of smaller ones with more damage, more weapons and the same hull against beams as hull 6 vessels, not to speak that the new point breakdown also favours masses of smaller ships. :?

 

[Triggy]

Most of the comments to this effect (all of them as far as I can tell) haven't actually tried a big ship with the new rules. They work just fine, and there's actually a battle report just up a few minutes ago that shows just how survivable big ships are.

 

[Poi]

3) FAP changing between the rulebook and fleet lists. I'm not buying til Matt sorts this out.

 

[Wing Commander]

I've tried big ships, the Excalibur, and they're a lot more survivable in 2nd edition, not being as susceptible to crit bombing eliminating them from the game!
Of course, I couldn't hit for squat but that's more due to my inept targeting than any hole in the rules... :shock:
That infamous quote, "How many more 1's can I roll?" - never, ever, ask that question.

 

[Right Hand of God]

2nd edition is everything I hoped it would be, it has sorted out grey areas in the rules, the fleets are far more balanced, it creates a whole load of new tactcal options and the fleet lists are great.

The big ships have so much more firepower you won't question if they are woth using just how many ypou can squeeze into your fleet.

As for the debate on swarms and mass patrol ships, big deal, it's a tactical choice and has it's own weaknesses if that's the way you decide to go. MGP pulled it out of the hat in this one

 

[Hans Olo]

The giving part went out the window after 9 rolls of 1 on the stealth Crying or Very sad However, the taking it part went on, and on, and on.... By turn 6 it was reduced to 40ish damage and crew but had taken 21 crits!!!! She had 7 minus 2 moves, 4 minus 1's, lost several traits, no engineering, had 5 -1 AD's, etc, etc

Oh yes that's great, a almost useless ship but still alive... as in first edition.

It never was the problem that big ships died to quick, but they where quit useless after a few crits. Sorry but this is not convincing me to invest fleet allocation points in bigger ships, while the smaller ones have still more combined firepower. Would be interesting what your opponents fleet was made of.

 

[Wing Commander]

Your kinda missing the point here, this was after 8 turns of being the centre of attention for most of the Minbari fleet. Read my battle report and you´ll get the idea. Despite my luck being abysmal (failing 9 out of 12 stealth rolls on 2+?!) she still tore chunks out of quite a few Minbari ships, the Morshin launched a stack of Nials and I pile drove into the middle of them and gave them a dose of AF6.
Had my Minbari opponent not been largely obsessed with taking the Victory out of the game and eliminating the threat that she posed (he couldn´t rely on me continuing to roll 1´s) then all that firepower would have been directed elsewhere, all 130 points or so of damage (and that´s against Hull 6) and remember, she´d taken 21 crits but was far from out the game, still had a functioning beam weapon, 15 dice of dakka dakka and 5 dice of minibeam.
Also, had I rolled anything but 1´s on the stealth then the Minbari would have been kicked several shades of black & blue by sheer firepower of this vessel. She was beaten severely, whilst the rest of the fleet took far less firepower and still battle worthy (e.g. had loads of firepower left) by the end of the game. I wouldn´t say that she had been crit bombed out of the game.

 

[Da Boss]

After 21 cirticals it is suprising any ship (even a Victory) is still alive! The criticals are still nasty but there is no longer a critical that takes out a ship like the Victory's guns in one hit (and non reparable) as there was in first addition. Even with a -5 AD it still has large battery of minbeams and other guns to balst its enemies - just the pesky Stealth that stops them firing! - despite all the complaints about staleth now being worthless..............

 

[Hans Olo]

I´ve read your battle report an enjoyed it, were do you think the quote is from?
Receiving 21 crits without loosing a single firing arc is pure luck, the loss of the front arc would have taken a lot of the remaining firepower.

the pesky Stealth that stops them firing! - despite all the complaints about stealth now being worthless..............

Would you say that rolling large numbers of 1ns where a two would have been needed is a good example for the usefulness of stealth?

 

[Triggy]

But in 8 turns there's plenty of time to either repair the single arc crit (which still doesn't take out all of the weapons!) or to use the All Hands to Deck special action and try to repair all of the crits.

 

[Da Boss]

yes well rolling ones is part of the game and people have been saying you will never miss the Minbari - its is suprising how often anything buyt a 1 or 2 means the Minbari are invisable.

Also what Triggy said

 

[Burger]

Receiving 21 crits without loosing a single firing arc is pure luck

It is lucky yes, but not so amazingly lucky as you might think. There are 3 crits which cause weapon loss, and one of them is only 1 weapon, the other 2 are one arc. The chance of 21 crits getting none of these 3, is 16%.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi, in Germany we are still waiting to get a copy of the rules :? .
The local distributors have no idea when the new books will arrive here.

They'll be getting them this week!

 

[MongooseMatt]

3) FAP changing between the rulebook and fleet lists. I'm not buying til Matt sorts this out.

Unless I am missing something (as I said in the recent Rulesmasters thread), this was sorted quite some time ago. . .

 

[Da Boss]

Sort of - you said the fleet book takes priority - which is fine - However

The Rules say to split up
The table (both in the fleet book) say to split down (but does not explain to someone who has not played the game how that works). Hence the confusion!

That is the calification required?!

 

[MongooseMatt]

The Rules say to split up
The table (both in the fleet book) say to split down (but does not explain to someone who has not played the game how that works). Hence the confusion!

With you - use the table.

 

[Poi]

Then perhaps some explanation of how it works please.

I know, because I've played 1e, but newbies will be lost.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Then perhaps some explanation of how it works please.

Take a FAP, split it into 2 FAPs of the next lowest level. You can then take one of those and split it into two downwards, and so on.

For example;

1 War point breaks down into 2 Battle points. One of those can then be split into 2 Raid points, and so on.