Omega boresight

[Lord David the Denied]

It was clearly stated that the Centauri found the Narn as primitive agrarians and easily enslaved them. If the Narn had had space travel they'd have been able to fight the Centauri, maybe even drive them off.

No, the Narn went to stars only after the Centauri were driven off their world after a hundred years of occupation, which was a recent event at the start of Season 1. G'Kar fought in the last years of the resistance to the occupation and he's by no means a venerable Narn. It was only forty or fifty years before the show that the Narn became a spacefaring race, but their expansion was very rapid.

 

[captainsmirk]

Although Ragesh 3 is described as being a former Narn colony which the Centauri took when the Narn try to take it back. This was however in the very first episode (after the pilot anyway) and thus is superseded by later evidence (presumably because the background hadn't yet been fully fleshed out by that stage).

Back on topic doubling most forward arced ships AD (even if they have to be boresight) would make them pretty evil, hmmm 12AD of DD, Precise beams on my Sharlin? Yes please...

Or even 12AD of Quad Damage, Precise, Beams on my Vorlon Heavy Cruiser...

Somewhat more effective (although those ships would have to deal with boresightedness but still...) than 3AD of forward beams on an Omega.


Nick

Nick

 

[Foxmeister]

[

In fact the very nature of the book itself as a hand written text suggests that they lacked even any form of printing press...

Errhh no! The book of G'Quan is *always* handwritten even in B5 days, so that is immaterial.

Plus if they had space flight back during the previous shadow war they would in fact be more advanced than the Centauri...

I didn't say they had space flight - I said they knew about it. Very big difference.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Foxmeister]

It was clearly stated that the Centauri found the Narn as primitive agrarians and easily enslaved them. If the Narn had had space travel they'd have been able to fight the Centauri, maybe even drive them off.

Actually I believe it was said that they were *peaceful* agrarians - primitive is just Centauri propaganda. However, whichever way you look at it, the Narn sold weapons technology to the EA during the Minbari war which likely means that their weapons technology (albeit reverse engineered, or stolen Centauri tech) was better than the EAs at that point in time.

Regards,

Dave

 

[captainsmirk]

They knew about it because the Shadows came from space... Doesn't mean they in any way fully understood the concept in any fashion more than the humans believing that the Vorlons were angels come from heaven.

And ok the book might have always been hand written but they would surely have had more knowledge of the subject other than the semi-mythical ramblings of a thousand year old religious text...

Hell we have other documentary evidence relating to events mentioned in the bible and that was two thousand years ago...


Nick

 

[mrambassador1]

I think you would not have to give double dmg borsight to ships with f arc weapons. The main reason (from the show perspective) that narn and earth ships use boresight weapons is that EA and narn lasers are somewhat flush with the ships hull. The ships hull blocks one of the lasers from firing left, and the other from firing right. Centauri and Minbari mount their lasers on the tips of the struts jutting out way ahead of the hull so they are not blocked by the ships hull. Incidently as has been stated, Omega lasers are seen in the show firing in a non boresight fashion, but if I remember correctly they are seen firing up or down, not left or right. For game purposes this is still boresight (no 3rd dimension)

Incidently I'm not advocating getting rid of boresight, I love it, makes the game more fun and interesting, gives EA its character. But I have to admit this half dmg forward arc idea is the best compromise I've seen if people are determined to get rid of boresight. And it still retains the EA (or narn for that matter) character, I'd still enjoy using it just as much as pure boresight, placates some people who really hate boresight for some reason, and remains true to the show. A good suggestion

 

[Foxmeister]

They knew about it because the Shadows came from space... Doesn't mean they in any way fully understood the concept in any fashion more than the humans believing that the Vorlons were angels come from heaven.

They understood the concept of beings from another world, and indeed the existence of other worlds, and did not need to ascribe them to any kind of divine or demonic source. That would put them several hundred years further ahead than recorded human wisdom on the same topic.

Regards,

Dave

 

[captainsmirk]

They understood the concept of beings from another world, and indeed the existence of other worlds, and did not need to ascribe them to any kind of divine or demonic source. That would put them several hundred years further ahead than recorded human wisdom on the same topic.

Regards,

Dave

I don't remember anything really stating any of that but it has been a while since I watched the episode, and I have read descriptions of the Centauri's arrival on Narn suggesting that they took over easily partially because the Narn thought the Centauri were some form of demi-gods...

Plus medieval europe was neither the only civilization on earth in 1250 nor the most advanced in those concepts, nor had said humans every actually encountered a species from another planet, which the Narn had...


Nick

 

[mrambassador1]

As far as I had always pieced together from the show, the Narn were primitive, maybe as primitive as Earth maybe more primitive in the last shadow war. The book of G'Quan describes the shadows as "coming from beyond the stars". Seems more like the description of a non space faring race or even a race with an accurate concept of space. If they knew more about space they would more likely be more specific, "somewhere beyond the rim", "somewhere in sector 14", "a barren planet called Z'ha'Dum" or the like.

I think they were space faring about 900 years later when the Centauri encountered them. Ragesh III was a Narn colony before the occupation. As for the centauri calling them primitive or barbarians, the Centauri seemed to call everyone that who weren't Centauri except the Minbari who I think they were secretly piss scared of but wouldn't admit it.

 

[Foxmeister]

I don't remember anything really stating any of that but it has been a while since I watched the episode, and I have read descriptions of the Centauri's arrival on Narn suggesting that they took over easily partially because the Narn thought the Centauri were some form of demi-gods...

Going to back to Narn knowledge of other worlds, like you I can't remember the specifics since it has been a while, but I believe that the Book of G'Quan shows that the Narn knew that the Shadows were from another world and they even knew the name of that world (Za'Ha'Dum).

Plus medieval europe was neither the only civilization on earth in 1250 nor the most advanced in those concepts, nor had said humans every actually encountered a species from another planet, which the Narn had...

I didn't specifically single out medieval europe anyway, and I'm well aware that in many ways some cultures were more "advanced" at that time (e.g. Islamic, Chinese etc), but certainly it was medieval european society that shaped the world that we see today. The point is that a human of that period would have almost certainly viewed an alien being as something akin to the divine or demonic rather than being a more advanced species from a different world.

Regards,

Dave

 

[captainsmirk]

Just seems strange that if they were at a later stage of development than the humans that after nearly a thousand they wouldn't have been capable of space flight by the time of the Centauri invasion (humanity was a sub-stellar space power by the same time)...

I mentioned the Ragesh 3 thing above as I said there that is in the very first episode when the background hadn't been fully fleshed out and thus I think effectively retconed (god forbid!!!) by later evidence.

The Narn were conquered not that long before first contact between the EA and the Centauri, and as far as I can tell the main reason that the Centauri cooperated with the EA rather than trying to take them over was because they were too advanced to suppress economically, surely a species with an interstellar colony would be even more expensive. This being at a time when the Republic's power was beginning to wane.


Nick

 

[mrambassador1]

I often got the feeling one of the reasons the centauri didn't conquer Earth was because of the newly conquered narn territory. They pretty much had their hands full with the Narn occupation and didn't want to open a second front "only and idiot would fight a war on 2 fronts. Only the heir to the throne of a kingdom of idiots would fight on 12 fronts". Kind of like how america doesn't want to fight Iran as they already have their hands full with Iraq and Afghanistan. There may have been other more social reasons why Earth seemed to fare better than most other races at the hands of the centauri. I don't know why but Centauri just seem to like humans more than other races. It may have been as simple as we just get on better than the others did. Perhaps we have more in common with the Centauri than the others do, lets face it what would the Narn and Centauri talk about. I can almost hear Londo now "Ohhhh, they just go on and on about G'Quan this and G'Quan that. They don't drink because its against their religion or something. I mean, Lighten up". I can't imagine them having many in depth conversations about fashion and coat lengths, colours, and fabrics with the Drazi. "Humans had, art, and trinkets, and eccentricity to spare", we are probably the only race to even come close to the centauri in liking clothes, and wines, and food, "The Minbari, Fah, what would they know about it. They still think robes are the height of fashion". It may even be as simple as we kind of look alike. They for whatever reason seem to like our company more than other races.

 

[sidewinder]

True all that.

As far as boresights go. The g'quon is kinda set in its ways. The lasers are huge and set in basically a spinal mount. I can see being able to aim the beam up and down but thats it.

The omegas on the other hand carry their lasers in turrets. The only problem is they only overlap straight ahead, hence the boresight. I'd say that, for an omega, rather then use that order to just halve the AD so you can shoot off center, just split the weapons. 3 AD on the left, 3 AD on the right and 6 AD on a boresight.

 

[Ripple]

Except the G'Quan is actually seen to fire to the side...

What was the line from Real Genius... a big laser that only fires for a few seconds from orbit... why all you'd need is a large spinning mirror...

Ripple

 

[Methos5000]

The only problem I see with the G'Quan firing to the sides, despite on screen evidence (wouldn't be the first CGI error anyway) is that the Hull of the ship is physically in the way of it doing that.

The tubes for the lasers are set back a little ways from the front of the ship, they would have to have a hole through that part of the ship with mirrors or something to reflect the beam.....seems like it would be easier (and safer) to roll 90 degrees and sweep the beam up and down like normal.

The Omega's are at least exposed on the sides so shooting that way could be more likely.

Not that I'm opposed the Narn getting a Boresight to Front arc conversion or anything, I'm just pointing out how horrible it must be for the poor Narn in the forward section of the ship every time the gunnery officer tries to shoot at something in the Port or Starboard arcs

 

[The_Mhor]

Or they could just, y'know, roll the ship a little and convert up-and-down to side-to-side...

 

[Methos5000]

Yes I mentioned that in my post as well as the safer alternative.

 

[The_Mhor]

Yes I mentioned that in my post as well as the safer alternative.

Doh.