Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Best take all your Celtic roots back to central Germany where you belong while you're at it, then, buddy... :roll:
OK, who nicked Scotland?
- Thread starter Silvereye
- Start date
Lord David the Denied said:
The Celts actually migrated from around China, coming into Europe through northern Greece/Yugoslavia and then up through France. The Saxons and Franks were from Germany and Northern Europe.
Lord David the Denied said:
Wing Commander said:
OK, Gaelic for sassenachs.
Skian dubh, thats the 'black knife' in the sock. It's only worn in the sock out of politeness to your host i.e. you trusted them. Normally, you hide it somewhere on your person. It tended to be made out of a broken tip of any weapon.
Tarn, thats an administrative region of France. Or a mountain lake formed by galciation.
A targe is the small shieled. You strap it to your left forearm and carry a dirk (a long knife) point downward in your left hand.
GothicTwist said:
You can bet the rest of Europe won't want them either...
Silvereye said:
It still does'nt make you any better at playing football
Seriously though, I can understand a friendly bit of rivalry between countries. Yet some people get so territorial about their ancestry, when confronting people of differring ethnic backgrounds. Did you know that different tribes of Gorrilla's, have greater genetic diverversity than that between humnans in different parts of the world.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Silvereye said:
Says who? Everything I've read on the Celts places their origin either around the Danube river or the Caucasus mountains. If they're from China why don't they share any common features with the Chinese and other Oriental peoples?
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I've never heard of such a program. The Celts had a presence in Asia, the Galatians, but these were basically Gauls who'd moved into what's now Turkey.
Wing Commander
Mongoose
The problem with Celtic history is that is was all oral, very little (i.e. almost none) was written down. What is known is that they were generally more technologically advanced than was previously thought, they moved around a lot (although had a few major settlements) and gave the Romans a right kickin, which (ironically), resulted in the formation of the Roman empire as we know it who paid them back with interest, pretty much removing them from history. As it was the Romans who won that particular war they rewrote the history books as they saw it.
Recent evidence suggests that most of Britain may not actually be Celts at all but a related tribe of some sort (again, no written history!), it is certain though that most of them were fairly aggressive and enjoyed a good fight. Particularly the northern and western inhabitants of the isles gave the Romans a right run for their money. There are documented cases of the Celts / Picts / Scots - as they are variously known coming down and attacking parts of Hadrians wall, when the ever-efficient Romans rushed to defend the wall the enemy would fade away. In reality the main attack was aimed 10 miles up the wall and they were actually after the wall itself... turns out that the Romans were pretty good at building and the wall was made out of really great bricks....
And, as for the missing Roman 13th Legion...
Recent evidence suggests that most of Britain may not actually be Celts at all but a related tribe of some sort (again, no written history!), it is certain though that most of them were fairly aggressive and enjoyed a good fight. Particularly the northern and western inhabitants of the isles gave the Romans a right run for their money. There are documented cases of the Celts / Picts / Scots - as they are variously known coming down and attacking parts of Hadrians wall, when the ever-efficient Romans rushed to defend the wall the enemy would fade away. In reality the main attack was aimed 10 miles up the wall and they were actually after the wall itself... turns out that the Romans were pretty good at building and the wall was made out of really great bricks....
And, as for the missing Roman 13th Legion...
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The Celtic nations were always a problem for the Romans, it's true, and they were far more advanced than the Romans gave them credit for. Many historians now credit the Celts with the invention of chain mail, for instance. The Romans certainly never did...
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Their language was Indo-European, at least...
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Reaverman said:
nope the celts were from the danube area. pre-celtic aryan people (the indo-europeans you refer to) were their ancestors, but that's like saying british people are from africa because if you go back far enough.....
the indo-european language family is a large grouping of languages with some basic common root words, evidence of a common ancestry. This ties in with the archaeology and historical evidence from India of the aryans who moved from asia into europe. Their culture, language and genetics mixed with the older europeans (the most famous remnant being the Basques) So any indo-european people come from asia if you want to say so, but it's silly and wrong to say the celts did but saxons and franks (also indo-european) were from germany....
The celts though as we know them were originally from the upper danube but migrated to iberia, the british isles and turkey.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Well put. They were one of the most prolific of racial groups in their day, and by all accounts quite warlike. We know they basically eliminated the bronze-age and neolithic tribes who arrived in Britian before the Celts, but sadly a lot of knowledge about them was fudged or destroyed by the Romans.
Still, the claim that any of the Celtic peoples of Britian have any more "right" to live here than the Saxons or Normans is laughable, since they conquered their bits of Britain by armed force the same as the Saxons and Normans did later.
Still, the claim that any of the Celtic peoples of Britian have any more "right" to live here than the Saxons or Normans is laughable, since they conquered their bits of Britain by armed force the same as the Saxons and Normans did later.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
there's no evidence that they eliminated the preCelts. Certainly the idea of genocide is unlikely.
A combination of killing some in war, inter-marrying with others and just being the dominant culture until the whole was homogenous is most likely.
but yeah the Celts could be just as nasty as the saxons or normans!
tidbit for the non-cymraeg speakers, England in welshis Lloegr meaning "lost lands"
A combination of killing some in war, inter-marrying with others and just being the dominant culture until the whole was homogenous is most likely.
but yeah the Celts could be just as nasty as the saxons or normans!
tidbit for the non-cymraeg speakers, England in welshis Lloegr meaning "lost lands"
emperorpenguin said:
It was that Aryan gorup I was meaning when I said the Celts originated in China (or more specifiaclly Western China/Kazakhstan/Kyrgyztan) They migrated their way westwards and the Celts (the Greeks knew them as Hyperboreans) populated the Balkans, Mid-europe and Iberia. There is nothing to say that another branch of the Aryan peoples went further north and eventually became the Saxons, Danes and Franks. (There are no doubt some population genetics sites on the 'net that will clarify things). Thing is, we have managed to miss the large population of Gauls in all this.
There is also a common mistake that the Roman Empire stopped at Hadrians Wall in the UK. The Antonine Wall was built between the Firth of Forth and the Firth of Clyde. There are forts and signal stations in Tayside and a camp at Raedykes near Stonehaven. There are probaly other sites like this beyond the recognised borders of the roman empire. I have also read articles a long while back that implied Pontious Pilot was from one of these forts in Perthshire.
So the exact boundaries between these peoples (mostly before Rome got involved and even afterwards) is very fuzzy.
Reaverman said:
Very true, there were some ideas behind this, one was that the population which eventually evolved into Homo Sapiens was tiny, and tetering on the brink of extinction.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Silvereye said:
yup the genetic "bottleneck" of 70000 years ago coinciding with the supervolcanic eruption in Indonesia
The antonine wall was only temporary though, Rome also had temporary holdings across the rhine and danube too but fell back upon easier to defend frontiers which hadrian's was
very fuzzy, there were communities and client states in scotland, ireland, germany, the crimea etc trading and almost part of the Roman world.
emperorpenguin said:
I suppose it really depends on your idea of temporary. The bit I was at recently (Rough Castle) had some huge earthwork defenses, and the excavations had shown the scale of the stone fortifications and structures on top. It was probably larger in area then the fort at Crammond. You can find out more about the scale of the Antonine Wall here.
I suppose we should just edit the Player locator and provide large country headings. Like USA, France, Australia, England, Ireland etc where state and city names can be entered? It would also have the benefit of breaking up the list into manageable chunks.
E.G.
Australia
ACT - Belconnen -
QLD - Brisbane -
England
Canterbury -
Leeds -
Germany
Hamburg -
Leipzig -
USA
FL - Tampa -
OH - Cincinnati -
Alternatively large countries that sort themselves by State could use headings for the State as well to further narrow things down.
E.G.
USA
Florida
Tampa -
Ohio
Cincinnati -
What do other people think.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
England, Ireland, etc. are not appropriate. The country is call the United Kingdom.
