OK, who nicked Scotland?

[Reaverman]

But no country bit

MER MER MER

 

[Tank]

Occassionally it sucks when its me thats right :lol:

 

[philogara]

Some links to definitions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country
http://geography.about.com/cs/politicalgeog/a/statenation.htm

Ahem...

Characteristics of a country
A country usually has its own government, administration and laws; and often a constitution, police, military, tax rules, and a population who are referred to as one another's countrymen. Together they form what Benedict Anderson has referred to as an imagined community.

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales fulfill those criteria. Scotland more so than Northern Ireland, and Wales only very marginally.

And also you'll note the same article in fact cites the UK and its constituent countries as an exception to the norm in the form of having Constituent Countries, which is exactlly what we've been saying :roll:

And hopefully you will also note that the other article listed contradicts this (I like to put differing versions down to enliven debate) which lists eight criteria and asserts that the constiuent entities of the UK are not countries.

The eight criteria (which I *believe* are what the UN use) are given as:
(1) Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).
(2) Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.
(3) Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.
(4) Has the power of social engineering, such as education.
(5) Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.
(6) Has a government which provides public services and police power.
(7) Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.
[8] Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.

(2) and (4) I believe apply to some or all constituent entities to varying degrees, and (3) and (6) to a degree. However, trade is regulated (nominally wrt EU) through UK Govt.; the police are ultimately Home Office (UK Govt). (7) the sovereign state is the UK, transportation is nominally a UK-wide thing (well whats not private anyway) - (1) and [8], surely the internationally recognised boundaries are those of the UK, and in terms of recognition, it is the UK that is represented in international bodies, not England, Scotland, etc. This also ignores the military power which again is a UK institution.

 

[Reaverman]

Occassionally it sucks when its me thats right :lol:

An infinte number of moneys....blah blah blah

 

[Silvereye]

The eight criteria (which I *believe* are what the UN use) are given as:
(1) Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).
(2) Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.
(3) Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.
(4) Has the power of social engineering, such as education.
(5) Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.
(6) Has a government which provides public services and police power.
(7) Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.
(8) Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.

(1) England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all have 'national boundaries' seperating them from each other and Eire.
(2) England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all fulfil this one too.
(3) Wales looses out here, they have money issued by the Bank of England. Northern Ireland has its own style of money, and Scotland has three banks which issue notes in addition to the Bank of England.
(4) Scotland has its own education system, seperate from England and Wales, not sure about Northern Ireland.
(5) Most of the transport network int he UK is controlled by regional councils. Motorways and railways are controlled Westminister (England and Wales) and Holyrood (Scotland).
(6) Scottish Law is fully independent from England, there are articles in the Act of Union about this.
(7) England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all share the same head of state.
(8) I think most people recognise Great Britain and England/Scotland/Walse/Northern Ireland. EU rules allow for the consituent nations of the UK to be looked at as individual states as well as a whole (the UK).

We are, all in all, a great big fuzzy ambiguity. And then there is the Kingdom of Fife as a Scottish region. Go figure.

EDIT
Corrected BBCode for Philogara's quote

 

[lastbesthope]

Well here's something that shows that the UK government thinks that the UK consists of multiple countries:

From the what you need to know for the UK citizenship test

http://www.lifeintheuktest.gov.uk/htmlsite/self_40.html

Population

How many people live in the countries of the UK?

LBH

 

[Silvereye]

Or there is this one:

What and when are the national days of the four countries of the UK? What are bank holidays?

But there are some questions in there that I don't know the answers to....
Google-fu to the rescue!

 

[lastbesthope]

Yeah, it is a little crazy that immigrant citizens are expected to know stuff that isn't always taught to natural born citizens.

LBH

 

[frobisher]

I don't know of any Scottish police force

There are several...

Tayside, Strathclyde, Grampian, Lothian and the others I can't remember off the top of my head.

These are disjoint from the English police forces. It took acts of Parliament to allow pursuit rights across the English-Scottish border. In England, this isn't necessary.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

 

[frobisher]

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

Well don't then :roll:

There is no single English Police Force as there isn't a single Scottish Police Force... The English/Welsh Police Regional Forces answer to the Home Office/Secretary of State where as the Scottish ones answered to the Scottish Office and now to the Scottish Assembly.

The Scottish Police Forces only have jurisdiction in Scotland, the English only in England and Wales. It took acts of Parliament to grant pursuit rights across the English-Scottish border; This was not necessary between the various regional (within England and Wales, and Scotland) forces.

And you obviously missed the hoo-ha over the (former) Royal Ulster Constabulary...

 

[emperorpenguin]

And you obviously missed the hoo-ha over the (former) Royal Ulster Constabulary...

the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI)

 

[philogara]

Or there is this one:

What and when are the national days of the four countries of the UK? What are bank holidays?

But there are some questions in there that I don't know the answers to....
Google-fu to the rescue!

I think the Wikipedia article points out that, despite its use by the Government of the UK, there is no legal definition of constituent country.

we live ina very confused state (or states?)

 

[lastbesthope]

Well anyone who tells me Scotland isn't a country will be beaten about the head with a haggis, depending on what mood I'm in it could be cooked, raw, still in sheep form or even tinned :lol: :twisted:

LBH

 

[philogara]

Well anyone who tells me Scotland isn't a country will be beaten about the head with a haggis, depending on what mood I'm in it could be cooked, raw, still in sheep form or even tinned :lol: :twisted:

LBH

And if ever there was a reason Scotland should nto be allowed to call itself a country, it is the Haggis

Can't you go for decent offal-based foods, like Black pudding (hmmmm, black pudding (insert drooling emoticon here)).

 

[frobisher]

And you obviously missed the hoo-ha over the (former) Royal Ulster Constabulary...

the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI)

Couldn't remember the new title I do remember that great effort was made to remove (at face value) the objectionable bits from the name in Republican eyes though.

 

[Reaverman]

Well anyone who tells me Scotland isn't a country will be beaten about the head with a haggis, depending on what mood I'm in it could be cooked, raw, still in sheep form or even tinned :lol: :twisted:

LBH

As long as the next time a Scotsman starts flip flopping on supporting a foreign football, I am allowed to beat you round the head with a 'beef' sausage, still raw and inside the Bovine! :twisted:

 

[lastbesthope]

As long as the next time a Scotsman starts flip flopping on supporting a foreign football, I am allowed to beat you round the head with a 'beef' sausage, still raw and inside the Bovine! :twisted:

I never flip flop, my fealty is constant, I always support whoever is playing against England :lol:

Scotland 6 - Faroes 0

England 5 - Andorra 0

Somedays it's good to drink Irn-Bru

LBH

 

[katadder]

doesnt matter abuot them scores, its wether scotland can actually qualify this time

 

[lastbesthope]

Let's not get silly ideas now :lol:

Scotland? Qualifying? A Jedi craves not these things!

LBH