Now for the Abbai...

[Jim?]

I don't play as them, and I rarely play against them but this is possibly the weakest fleet in ACTA, as it stands. The Abbai are meant to play as a peace loving, defensive fleet with little in the way of heavy hitters, but tough as nails to kill as they have the strongest defences of any younger race...

I play mixed league but can see little or no practical use for including any Abbai ships in my standard 5 point raid fleet, as the other races seem to have better ships for the job and don't have the Abbai's terrible initiative modifier thrown in to spoil the broth, either. As an allied fleet they seem to be of little use, and remove more from the league fleet than they add to it.

The only mixed league fleet that I can think of being worth a shot when playing them would be a mainly Pak'ma'ra fleet with a pair of Milanis thrown in to gain some (poor) Kotha escorts for their Porfatis, a job that would be better served by a Brokados with some Falkosis.

There are various problems with the list, from the Bimith being lumbering and too short ranged, to the Kotha being almost completely useless, to the fleet in general having no punch (except for the Juyaca and Brivoki) and not enough survivability due to their slow speeds and shields that get knocked down too quickly.

There are a few fixes that seem fairly simple: removing lumbering from the Bimith, uprating the Abbai shields' recharge rate or starting value, removing the Kotha's weak guns so at least they can be used as interceptors... the list goes on.

What would you Abbai players most like to see changed to make your fleet more attractive/competitive to play in ACTA?

 

[H]

i actually think the Milani is a superb ship, and is one of the best light carriers in the game. alas the kotha sucks. also thede patrol level ships are quite good for what they do. and then the juyaca is superb and the brivoki is a beast. the problem for the abbai is that the bimith sucks, it took one heck of a downgrade in 2nd ed, the Lakara isn't too bad though. I think to upgrade the abbai, the bimith needs a significant upgrade. loose lumbering, gain a turn, and maybe a secondary weapon. And generally a few more ship choices across the board. using ISD's we know the Abbai went to war as an agressor against the drakh, so they can make offensive ships if they choose. The Abbai along with the hyach are the most advanced league race allegedly, so they should be able to make ships that are better than the other league forces. This is shown in the excelent juyaca and Brivoki, so let it filter down through the other races. For house ruling, try looking at my supplement Juyaie for drakh hunting Abbai varients ;-)

 

[Diesel]

The Juyaca is an awesome ship though. You can use it to rule off whole flanks as an opponent will go the long way around to avoid it!

Not entirely sure it's worth the initiative modifier in campaigns, but I'd get another one. The rest of the fleet is fairly pointless though.

 

[Davesaint]

i actually think the Milani is a superb ship, and is one of the best light carriers in the game. alas the kotha sucks. also thede patrol level ships are quite good for what they do. and then the juyaca is superb and the brivoki is a beast. the problem for the abbai is that the bimith sucks, it took one heck of a downgrade in 2nd ed, the Lakara isn't too bad though. I think to upgrade the abbai, the bimith needs a significant upgrade. loose lumbering, gain a turn, and maybe a secondary weapon. And generally a few more ship choices across the board. using ISD's we know the Abbai went to war as an agressor against the drakh, so they can make offensive ships if they choose. The Abbai along with the hyach are the most advanced league race allegedly, so they should be able to make ships that are better than the other league forces. This is shown in the excelent juyaca and Brivoki, so let it filter down through the other races. For house ruling, try looking at my supplement Juyaie for drakh hunting Abbai varients ;-)

Hiff,

How can you honestly say that the Milani is one of the best small carriers in the game? Look at the other skirmish level carriers out there and explain to me how they are better - Xeel, Brikorta, Raider(who you can get fighters on it that can be used as interceptors), and really that's all of them.

The only ships currently that are halfway decent are at War level or higher PL. The LaKara is terrible for it's PL. Compare it to the Avioki, the Primus, the Xonn, Xaak, Tikrit, and it doesn't compare well at all. Heck I don't think it can go toe to toe with an Omega and do well. The Tiraca is marginal, but it's beam is too short range for what you need.

If I want escorts for Pakmara Portfitas, I will take a Brokados and a bunch of Falkosi every time.


Dave

 

[Ironwolf44]

Tiraca frigate,, beam weapon and shields on a patrol level ship. What's not to like?

Lakara cruiser,,,shields, an interceptor, 6AD beams at 15, hull 6,,,,,OK, it's only speed 6. Am I missing something? This one is very likeable too.

I've got both in my League fleet.

 

[H]

i actually think the Milani is a superb ship, and is one of the best light carriers in the game. alas the kotha sucks. also thede patrol level ships are quite good for what they do. and then the juyaca is superb and the brivoki is a beast. the problem for the abbai is that the bimith sucks, it took one heck of a downgrade in 2nd ed, the Lakara isn't too bad though. I think to upgrade the abbai, the bimith needs a significant upgrade. loose lumbering, gain a turn, and maybe a secondary weapon. And generally a few more ship choices across the board. using ISD's we know the Abbai went to war as an agressor against the drakh, so they can make offensive ships if they choose. The Abbai along with the hyach are the most advanced league race allegedly, so they should be able to make ships that are better than the other league forces. This is shown in the excelent juyaca and Brivoki, so let it filter down through the other races. For house ruling, try looking at my supplement Juyaie for drakh hunting Abbai varients ;-)

Hiff,

How can you honestly say that the Milani is one of the best small carriers in the game? Look at the other skirmish level carriers out there and explain to me how they are better - Xeel, Brikorta, Raider(who you can get fighters on it that can be used as interceptors), and really that's all of them.

The only ships currently that are halfway decent are at War level or higher PL. The LaKara is terrible for it's PL. Compare it to the Avioki, the Primus, the Xonn, Xaak, Tikrit, and it doesn't compare well at all. Heck I don't think it can go toe to toe with an Omega and do well. The Tiraca is marginal, but it's beam is too short range for what you need.

If I want escorts for Pakmara Portfitas, I will take a Brokados and a bunch of Falkosi every time.


Dave

through use and experiance? the Milani is one of the first ships I will choose in a league fleet, it is the first ship chosen in my friends abbai fleet. Everyone has their opinion, however i have never been let down by a Milani. At the end of the day this is opinion of ships I have used, I am more than happy with the Milani, it's real weakness is the ships it carries, the ship itself is fine. As for the Brokados, i think you will find it is a raid level, so hardly fair to compare it to a skirmish ship now is it. if we ar randomly picking ships from different priorities i'll take a cidikar eh?

 

[Davesaint]

Tiraca frigate,, beam weapon and shields on a patrol level ship. What's not to like?

Lakara cruiser,,,shields, an interceptor, 6AD beams at 15, hull 6,,,,,OK, it's only speed 6. Am I missing something? This one is very likeable too.

I've got both in my League fleet.

The Lakara is slow, has poor secondary weapons, the shield is too small, and doesn't regenerate fast enough. Plus it's lumbering, which blows chunks when you are trying to get the secondaries in range.

Why would you take a Lakara in a combined league fleet over a Xonn, A Xaak, an Avioki or a Pak Hurr Gunship?

Dave

 

[Ironwolf44]

Simple answer,,,limited pocket money and I was able to get it cheap! :lol:

That also explains why my 3 larger ships are a Tashkat, a Lakara and a Xill.

 

[Target]

Not haven't really played abbai but what would happen if the twinlinks were precise as well & the Kotha had shields 1/1 & 2AD normal or maybe even 1AD. How much would it help the fleet.

 

[Davesaint]

i actually think the Milani is a superb ship, and is one of the best light carriers in the game. alas the kotha sucks. also thede patrol level ships are quite good for what they do. and then the juyaca is superb and the brivoki is a beast. the problem for the abbai is that the bimith sucks, it took one heck of a downgrade in 2nd ed, the Lakara isn't too bad though. I think to upgrade the abbai, the bimith needs a significant upgrade. loose lumbering, gain a turn, and maybe a secondary weapon. And generally a few more ship choices across the board. using ISD's we know the Abbai went to war as an agressor against the drakh, so they can make offensive ships if they choose. The Abbai along with the hyach are the most advanced league race allegedly, so they should be able to make ships that are better than the other league forces. This is shown in the excelent juyaca and Brivoki, so let it filter down through the other races. For house ruling, try looking at my supplement Juyaie for drakh hunting Abbai varients ;-)

Hiff,

How can you honestly say that the Milani is one of the best small carriers in the game? Look at the other skirmish level carriers out there and explain to me how they are better - Xeel, Brikorta, Raider(who you can get fighters on it that can be used as interceptors), and really that's all of them.

The only ships currently that are halfway decent are at War level or higher PL. The LaKara is terrible for it's PL. Compare it to the Avioki, the Primus, the Xonn, Xaak, Tikrit, and it doesn't compare well at all. Heck I don't think it can go toe to toe with an Omega and do well. The Tiraca is marginal, but it's beam is too short range for what you need.

If I want escorts for Pakmara Portfitas, I will take a Brokados and a bunch of Falkosi every time.


Dave

through use and experiance? the Milani is one of the first ships I will choose in a league fleet, it is the first ship chosen in my friends abbai fleet. Everyone has their opinion, however i have never been let down by a Milani. At the end of the day this is opinion of ships I have used, I am more than happy with the Milani, it's real weakness is the ships it carries, the ship itself is fine. As for the Brokados, i think you will find it is a raid level, so hardly fair to compare it to a skirmish ship now is it. if we ar randomly picking ships from different priorities i'll take a cidikar eh?

Sure, it is a level higher, so I will suggest the Brikorta instead. A better fighter in the Falkosi, has the carrier trait, Has Int. 2, Antifighter 1, has longer ranged secondaries, albeit they have less dice, but are AP, and has a double damage range 20 beam that is boresighted.

Of course you could take the Xeel with it's 4 Tzymms or 4 Zorths. It has a 6AD SAP DD turreted Antimatter cannon at range 15, and even the Tyzmm is a better dogfighter than the Kotha.

The problem with the Milani is that it lacks the toughness to slug it out with someone. IMO the Milani needs the following: Interceptors 1 and an increase in it's beam to 3AD. Shield 8 with a recharge of 1 really doesn't do much.

Time after time in our games, I see the Abbai ships blowing up like popcorn with little or nothing to show for it, and it is not due to the tactics that are being employed by the player.

The Shyarie is likely the most useless scout in the game for it's primary rate as beams cant be redirected, and everything else except the comm disruptors are twin-linked. The ship has no firepower against other ships. Unless you have a ship with stealth on the table, it's a waste of pl


Dave

 

[H]

making the twin linked precise would be gross and make the fleet somewhat considerably broken. As to shields on the kotha, shields don't work against Af or in dogfights, so probably not much use really

 

[Greg Smith]

I tend to think the Abbai suffer from having 8" range. It was a fairly standard range for secondary weapons in the first edition. Now with a proliferation of fleets and ships with longer range secondaries they look pretty poor.

 

[jedimasterwiggy]

Intresting thread always wondered what the fleet was like but the bit that got my attention...."Shields don't work against AF." Not having a book to hand could someone tell me where it says this?
I have a shadow opponent who I wish to make look scared when next his shadow fighters appear from hyperspace near my Vree.

 

[Target]

Intresting thread always wondered what the fleet was like but the bit that got my attention...."Shields don't work against AF." Not having a book to hand could someone tell me where it says this?
I have a shadow opponent who I wish to make look scared when next his shadow fighters appear from hyperspace near my Vree.

I think it a rule we should ignore anyway

 

[Greg Smith]

...but the bit that got my attention...."Shields don't work against AF." Not having a book to hand could someone tell me where it says this?

Page 28, "It should be noted that the Anti-Fighter and Advanced Anti-Fighter traits are not counted as weapons for the purposes of these rules and will not be affected by a ship being Crippled or under Special Actions, nor will they be affected by traits on fighters, such as Stealth."

 

[ShopKeepJon]

OK, I've tried playing the Abbai (admittedly with counters...) and I have a question.

What is the "theme" of this fleet supposed to be? All of the other fleets that I have tried out have had a fairly unique "feel" to them. The Abbai just seem to be a collection of ships that, other than being generally cumbersome (except for the frigates), have no real unifying idea behind them.

What is this fleet supposed to do? What makes it different from others?

Yes, some of the ships are good and others totally suck (from my limited experience and comments on this forum), but that sort of analysis doesn't make them a unified fleet...

Am I missing something or is the fleet missing something?

ShopKeepJon

 

[katadder]

changes I would make:
all ships more shield regen
bimith - regain its 2nd turn and 1e AD, lose lumbering
Lakara - regain its 1e AD, increase beam to 18" so same as centauri.
Jucaya - beam to 18"

the rest of the fleet does fairly well IMO. i love using milanis and tiracas but the abbai really suffer at raid and battle.

 

[CZuschlag]

I'm afraid that I find tha Abbai a horrible fleet as well, only considering the Tiraca worthy of consideration. The Milani and the Bimith can only be considered sad, sad joke ships, unable to create cognizant offensive plans after the first battle pass due to wretched range and crippling turning rates.

Even if these issues are solved, the Abbai suffer from a fundamental strategy problem -- what do they have that can compel an opposing fleet to come to moderate to close range? Without an answer to this, I can't see any tweak fizing a broken fleet concept.

 

[Triggy]

In the games I've played, I've found the Tiraca and Milani to easily punch their weight (comparisons to the Brikorta are good and fair but to the Xeel are unfair as that ship is overpowered in the first place), the Juyaca is reasonable for its PL and the Brivoki is pretty decent.

However, the Lakara lacks a little something and the Bimith is just plain poor.

As for having no reason to entice the enemy into 8" range, the Abbai have (or will soon be getting better) survivability to close, and aren't exactly the slowest fleet out there. It's the Abbai's job to close with the enemy and spam everyone with lots of Quad Array shots whilst softening the enemy up on the way in with beam shots.

 

[snubby]

The theme of the fleet ... "It's the Abbai's job to close with the enemy and spam everyone with lots of Quad Array "

they can close with the enemy and get in the center of the fleet and shoot every witch way, the down side is if its an open table then they are in trouble. If not in a mixed fleet with some ranged distractions they are also sometimes in trouble.

My biggest issue was with storry/game Lakara Cruiser
is supposed to sit back behind Defence Satellites and cripple incomming enemy ships with its laser yet , the lakara only has range 15. How is it to sit back and do this?? lol