Notre Dame

[ottarrus]

We've been talking a fair amount about culture over on the Traveller thread... what culture is, the effect of culture, the spread of culture and so on.
With that in mind, I would congratulate our French Fellow Travellers on the rededication of Notre Dame.
Whether you heard it or not, we were all deeply saddened by the near-loss of this magnificent cultural treasure. To an American, it would be as if we'd lost the Statue of Liberty... it would be an event that cut at the heart of our people. To the British... I suppose it would be if Big Ben collapsed or if a significant portion of Buckingham Palace had burned.
[Yes, I do remember where the Statue of Liberty came from, and you can hold off on posting the video clip from Man In The High Castle -- we've all seen it]
To the artists and craftsmen, to the donors, and to the French Republic that made the reconstruction possible, I want to offer my sincere respects. And just in time for Christmas too.

 

[-Daniel-]

Well said ottarrus.

 

[Limpin Legin]

To an American, it would be as if we'd lost the Statue of Liberty... it would be an event that cut at the heart of our people. To the British... I suppose it would be if Big Ben collapsed or if a significant portion of Buckingham Palace had burned.

Not sure if the Americans have an equivalent to Notre-Dame, simply because there was no US of A in the 1100s, when the original architecture was built. Scratching my head to find a British equivalent too. Could be Salisbury or Canterbury Cathedral. Neither of which are located in the capital city. Statue of Liberty is more like French Arc De Triomphe or British Trafalgar Square, in terms of symbolic significance(?) (but not size or sense of grandeur.)

Anyways ... glad to hear I wasn't the only non-French person who was sentimental about the fire at ND , and especially glad to hear fellow Travellers were in on the reopening of the cathedral. Cheers for posting.

 

[ottarrus]

And here's the thing: I'm DEEPLY critical of the Catholic Church in general.
But I recognize Notre Dame's significance as a Thing of Beauty and as a magnificent architectural achievement. And I agree with the UN that these things must be preserved for our descendants.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[ColinD]

The firefighting and salvage done to protect Notre Dame was both brave and tactically smart! (see Notre Dame Fire wikipedia. )
Parisian Firefighters went inside the collapsing structure and saved the bell towers. They even utilized drones and robots to help gather interior views and make decisions on where to place the interior streams while saving the art within. Glad to see the restoration is going well!

 

[JNJ]

Thanks Ottarruss.

As seen from my bedroom window on April 15th 2019 :

 

[JNJ]

Same view, picture taken 2mn ago :

 

[-Daniel-]

As seen from my bedroom window on April 15th 2019 :

That must have been heart breaking watching it happen.

 

[JNJ]

That must have been heart breaking watching it happen.

Yes, really, especially when the the church spire fell.

 

[Anstett]

I am covering this on the library podcast tomorrow. Back 2022 (Ep 92) we did a story on the techniques they are using to rebuild. It is nice to have the full story.

Edit to include a link: https://open.spotify.com/show/0HCK3rt7mm461G7l7dExsh

 

[ottarrus]

I am covering this on the library podcast tomorrow. Back 2022 (Ep 92) we did a story on the techniques they are using to rebuild. It is nice to have the full story.

Edit to include a link: https://open.spotify.com/show/0HCK3rt7mm461G7l7dExsh

As many of you know, I'm a Civil War reenactor and was a medieval reenactor before that.
One of the things reenacting and gaming have given me is a real appreciation and respect for craftsmanship. Not only the 'how did they do that' but the 'why they did that'. In my fantasy games I make sure my players understand just how much of a pain the ass it is to light a fire without matches and I give them an understanding of just what goes into making thatched roof.
My wife and I love watching the restoration and repair shows where someone is rebinding a 300 year old book, or fixing a clock that's 150 years old. And those talents are dying. People who are skilled and qualified enough to do restoration work on medieval structures are literally a dying breed and once gone those skills will never come back.
And then you get the people that build a medieval style castle using nothing but period materials and techniques, like Chateau Guedelon...
The takeaway for all you Traveller fans is this: Just cuz it's medieval [aka TL 3] doesn't mean it's simple or stupid or easy.
[link to the wiki article on Chateau Guedelon - enjoy!]

Guédelon Castle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[-Daniel-]

... I make sure my players understand just how much of a pain the ass it is to light a fire without matches ...

My father taught me to light a fire several ways, but my favorite was flint and steel. I will never forget my first time and how long it took me to get a spark to fly and to land on the dry leaf. What a pain.

But I agree with your point 100%. The skill and craftmanship is a hard thing to learn and a lot of it is being lost.

 

[CordwainerFish]

The skill and craftmanship is a hard thing to learn and a lot of it is being lost.

Some day I want to take a whack at building my own radio transceiver, even if I can never hope to make something as practical as an off the shelf model.

 

[Condottiere]

That's why you have guilds.

To archive that knowledge, and restrict dissemination.

 

[ottarrus]

My father taught me to light a fire several ways, but my favorite was flint and steel. I will never forget my first time and how long it took me to get a spark to fly and to land on the dry leaf. What a pain.

But I agree with your point 100%. The skill and craftmanship is a hard thing to learn and a lot of it is being lost.

So, I'm left-handed and I have NEVER been able to master flint and steel. I've got a bow-drill down cold, but every single time I try flint and steel I lay a groove in my finger

 

[Sigtrygg]

Did they ever declassify the investigation of how it and over 1000 churches in France mysteriously catch fire?

 

[JNJ]

Did they ever declassify the investigation of how it and over 1000 churches in France mysteriously catch fire?

Seems to come from a "misleading" map :

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/map-shows-all-alleged-crimes-against-churches-france-not-just-fires-2024-07-25/

I am French, made studies in medieval history of arts, and worked for some years in that field.
I can insure you that 1000 churches didn't catch fire in France.

Theft occurs the most frequently. There are thousands churches, even in the smallest villages, their doors are not well locked, easy to break in 5mn and they are full of treasures easy to sell abroad. Thieves know that very well.

From another serious source of information (and they are very christian), about the same map :

Cette carte montre-t-elle vraiment les églises "qui ont subi un incendie depuis 5 ans" ? | TF1 INFO

[VIDÉO] L'église de l'Immaculée-Conception à Saint-Omer (Pas-de-Calais) a été ravagée par les flammes dans la nuit de dimanche à lundi. En réaction, des internautes ont diffusé une carte impressionnante censée montrer le nombre des lieux de cultes chrétiens incendiés en France ces cinq dernières...

www.tf1info.fr

"Beyond the fires, the facts compiled through press articles range from theft in a presbytery (new window) to vandalism on a statuette and various assaults. There are also simple accidents, such as a concrete cross found broken in two on August 5 in Monistrol-sur-Loire. For the time being, the municipal police are favoring the theory of a collision due to agricultural machinery. No reason to speak of a "Christianophobic" act at this stage."

This map was put on line by French extreme right christians...they proliferate here these days. And always try to put the country on fire :

"This is not the first time that this map has gone viral. It actually appeared in 2019, after the fire at Notre-Dame de Paris. At the time, several ultra-conservative blogs and far-right sites wanted to present the tragedy that struck the Parisian cathedral as part of a broader movement to destroy the Christian religion. Since then, it has resurfaced regularly, almost systematically, when a tragedy strikes a place of worship of this religion."

 

[Condottiere]

A lot of Italian churches have to worry about their near masterwork decorations being stolen.

 

[JNJ]

A lot of Italian churches have to worry about their near masterwork decorations being stolen.

Yes, unfortunately the same everywhere, I worked 5 years as a guide in Egypt ... you can't imagine how many archeological treasures disapppear.