Nights Dawn

[baz king]

I'm working on a loooonnnng standing project to convert Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn books into a gaming setting. While I'm at it I want to use it to roadtest a ruleset I've been tinkering with for ages.

Trouble is, people keep releasing games that I love and want to use their rules for it! So I'm just cracking on with a generic players and gms guide which i can drop mechanics onto once that's done.

See, I've always been a big fan of space opera, but it's one of those genres that my group rarely touches, which is a shame. It also means my working knowledge of the gaming genre is weak. So any suggestions would be gratefully received. Will the new Mongoose Traveller answer all my prayers?

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Yes.


:lol:

 

[baz king]

Well that's a relief.

You certainly put all my doubts to bed.

 

[broken serenity]

if u ever release a .pdf of your nighta dawn setting let us know please because i'd definitly be interested in checking it out, that trilogy is one of my favorites.

 

[Shane_Mclean]

Hey there,

The Night's Dawn universe is certain a fascinating one - more so without the dead returning, in my opinion. And as a gaming universe it has a good deal of potential.

One concern I have with the idea of converting it is the weapons and armour. Even the small arms of the trilogy do horrific amounts of damage to people and the surrounding area alike. Often people we killed outright unless they had on extremely advanced armour. Note that this isn’t just the big guns, but some of the more 'tame' rifles. In game this means that you need to tame-down the weapons a bit to avoid the old Rifts problem of never being able to take off the mega-damage armour. Then again, if you tone it down too much, half of the combat stuff in the books isn't replicable in-game, which could break the player's enjoyment.

Just a thought to bear in mind.


Shane

 

[baz king]

Hey there,

The Night's Dawn universe is certain a fascinating one - more so without the dead returning, in my opinion. And as a gaming universe it has a good deal of potential.

One concern I have with the idea of converting it is the weapons and armour. Even the small arms of the trilogy do horrific amounts of damage to people and the surrounding area alike. Often people we killed outright unless they had on extremely advanced armour. Note that this isn’t just the big guns, but some of the more 'tame' rifles. In game this means that you need to tame-down the weapons a bit to avoid the old Rifts problem of never being able to take off the mega-damage armour. Then again, if you tone it down too much, half of the combat stuff in the books isn't replicable in-game, which could break the player's enjoyment.

Just a thought to bear in mind.


Shane

Thanks for the input Shane. I completely agree with your points.
Weaponry in the stories is awesomely powerful, yet so are the defences, so essentially I think a system that makes you think twice about getting into a scrap will be able to handle the job. I just need to put TIP carbines at the body pistol levels of stat.
If this was a fantasy game with levels then the Hamilton tech would be at epic level. Scifi RPGs don't seem to address such "high level" play directly. Hamilton is right at the end of tech levels I've seen in Trav or GURPs.
However, the first sticking point I can see is the mechanical differences between Adamist and Edenist cultures. How would you tackle it?

 

[Shane_Mclean]

Hi Baz,

I guess my answer really depends on what mechanical differences you think are important enough to model.

To look at Affinity, I guess you have to attach a game value to it before you can model it. It allows communication between Edenists over fair distances, so it has a deal of tactical value there. It also allows direct control of starships. Also reasonably big a deal. The biggest thing is that it can't easily be negated. The Adamist version (cyberware by any other name) can be blocked or disabled, so obviously there is more game value in Affinity, but then again Nanonics have more versatile applications (bitek processors notwithstanding).

So, Edenist characters get Affinity from the start (Adamists can have it grafted in to control Blackhawks, but that is another story altogether). This gives them a bonus. Now, the whole genetically engineered thing could make them arguable healthier and stronger, but the average Edenist and average Adamist are similar enough in their capabilities that I don't think stat mods are worthwhile. Lets not overcomplicate things.

So, its a case of what to do to the Adamists to balance out Edenist Affinity? Neural implants are ubiquitous enough in the Nights Dawn universe that its more a case of asking how good are the implants the character has more than if they have them. Unless it suits a character not to have them, assume they do - basic unless chargen gives better ones. So that goes a long way towards balancing it out. And in actual play the difference, especially in a mixed group, won't actually matter, neither side has any real huge advantage over the other in mechanical terms, especially enough to make it an issue within a player group. Both Affinity and Nanonics can pretty much do the same stuuf - its just in a different way, and the end result matters in play more than the method.

So, really, I don't think there is a major mechanical difference between the two. Just make a few skills for Edenist Affinity control of ships/tech that can't be used with Adamist ships/tech and vice (versa) and you're done.

Modelling the tech itself is going to be your biggest problem, I'd say.

Regards,

Shane

 

[baz king]

Again, you mirror my thoughts almost exactly. I go round and round on the balance issue only to realise that much of the tech brings about similar mods and that any real differences will come out in narrative roleplay
For example: voidhawks, blackhawks, Adamist ships. I suspect that the ingame differences will be largely cosmetic.
Obviously Hamilton was not concerned in the least with issues of balance, just narrative tension. If I want to replicate that then I think it might be more useful to work up a concise "library data" resource than a set of careers and skills.
As I'm posting on a Traveller forum it would be rude to consider other systems, so I will stick with seeing if Trav can pull it off. I'm happy to see that combat is described as lethal especially if there's a tech difference between combatants. Fits just right. Aging isn't an issue in the books so that needs an adjust. And so on.
Where to start?

 

[Border Reiver]

It would certainly work though I'd be more interested in a Commonwealth game than a Confederation one.

 

[baz king]

Ok. I've had the new book for a few days now and my excitement is growing. It looks like there won't be nearly as much to convert as I first thought. Most of the universe assumptions work directly, and the rest don't seem to break the setting at all.

I'm starting to think I'll just have to rename a bunch of stuff, and that's it!
For example, combat wasps=smart missiles. Sure, I could make it miles more complex and 'realistic' but it doesn't look like I'll have to.

So far, so impressed!

 

[Ommadawn]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but how is this project progressing? I loved Hamilton's universe, and would dearly like to see any writeup made about it.

 

[aelius]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but how is this project progressing? I loved Hamilton's universe, and would dearly like to see any writeup made about it.

Ditto!

 

[zanwot]

Actually I was thinkign to myself Hamilton's universe would make a GREAT setting. Thanks for undigging this thread.

Appart from the coolness of the universe, one of the small but in my eye great reasons it would adapt so well to RPG is adamism / edenisme each having high tech comunications. IE, players can talk to each other during combat or when they are far from each other, and it is coherent with the universe (so long as players are all either adamist or edensit). Plenty of politics, religion/philosophy, underground activity, different levels of development of planets, etc etc...

So I would like to hear if any progress was made on this, and could maybe offer my help, modestly as I don't have masses of time.

Generally speaking, I think one essentially just needs to use the higher range of techs from traveller (a TIP would be closer to an advanced laser rifle I would guess personaly, and the bigger ones equivalent to plasma and Fusion rifles. It is ok, the lethality of weapons helps the atmosphere).
Many other points to see (high acceleration possible, etc), the space weapons work as mini combat units in themselves, etc etc.

 

[baz king]

Wow, more replies in the last week than in the last month!

So just to let you all know how things are progressing:

I've trawled the web and found quite a few resources that I'm busy editing into library data. I've now compiled all this into a database . Most of those old sites are dead ends, or projects long abandoned, and none of them came at it from a gaming pov. Disheartening on occasion, but I always knew this would never be a speedy project!

I'm adding to that list as I go through the books again making notes. So far the easiest thing I've found has been another set of paperbacks and some coloured highlighters!

I've covered Second Chance at Eden (mostly historical interest), the first half of the Reality Dysfunction (still very cool) and all of the Confederation Handbook (almost verbatim). It's pretty slow going, but I have noticed the work getting quicker as I go. F'rex I'm not having to add very much to the Voidhawk entry once I've got the first notes down.

The other thing I'm doing is translating the fictional terms and references into Traveller based gaming terms. This part has worked out to be much more straightforward than I initially thought it would be. Essentially it's just core Trav at high tech levels. And that's it! I'm simply replacing the descriptors and I'm getting pretty good feedback from my playtesters so far.

And that's where I'm at.

 

[baz king]

Oh, and now the SRD is available, the whole project just got new impetus!

 

[Ommadawn]

Excellent news! Please do keep us posted on your progress!