New Ships for Noble Armada
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
starbreaker
Mongoose
Nerroth said:
If you interpret "as if they were actually mounted upon it" literally, then look at what happens when you have two ships flying parallel within 4" range, both of them Escorts.
If they're on the same course, and a volley comes in through the (say) port arc aimed at the more distant ship, then only the port arc gats on the target ship can fire. The intervening ship can't fire its own port gats (because an attack isn't technically being made against it through that arc) and its starboard gats (which "cover" the target) act like they were mounted on the target ship - meaning they can only shoot at things coming in through the starboard arc. That's pretty silly, and probably not RAI.
Even more ridiculous, if the two ships are on reciprocal course (parallel, facings 180 degrees apart), a volley at the more distant ship's port arc triggers both ship's port gats - the target's because they bear already, and the escort's because it "covers" with its own port side, which are then treated as being mounted on the target, and therefore being in arc. That's a clear case of off-side gats firing, and it happens because of the wording you're citing.
If you can logically explain why off-side gats should work in the second case but not the first, you're a better man than I.
Not that I truly care. As of today I have finally managed to sell the last of my many NA minis. I'm apparently stuck with the rulebook, but other than that I can wash my hands of the game once and for all. I managed to make enough (barely) on the painted stuff to compensate for losses on the rules and unfinished figs, so I can call my unpleasant little learning experience with Matt and Mongoose a free lesson and move on.
I think that too much is being read into this one sentence:
This does not mean that the Escort gets to utilise both facings as if it were somehow able to spin 180 or shoot as the attack passed over them.
The being able to "...protect that ship as if they were actually mounted on it" simply means that, rather than being selfish and only being able to protect the ship they are on, they can opt to shoot at valid triggers that are coming against a friendly ship. This does not mean that the Escort is somehow treated as coming under attack itself.
To put it simply:
ONLY the Escorts Gatling Lasers that have the friendly target ship, in 4", and in their arc, can fire in support.
It is a pretty simple rule, and any other interpretation is perhaps being...shall we say, creative? But then again, such is the wargamer, looking for any interpretation to their advantage
Hal.
This does not mean that the Escort gets to utilise both facings as if it were somehow able to spin 180 or shoot as the attack passed over them.
The being able to "...protect that ship as if they were actually mounted on it" simply means that, rather than being selfish and only being able to protect the ship they are on, they can opt to shoot at valid triggers that are coming against a friendly ship. This does not mean that the Escort is somehow treated as coming under attack itself.
To put it simply:
ONLY the Escorts Gatling Lasers that have the friendly target ship, in 4", and in their arc, can fire in support.
It is a pretty simple rule, and any other interpretation is perhaps being...shall we say, creative? But then again, such is the wargamer, looking for any interpretation to their advantage
Hal.
Halaxi said:
Not sure I have got a handle on what the confusion here is - given the text of the rule, why are people thinking they should be able to fire gatling lasers that have not got a friendly in arc? Or have I misunderstood the query?
Essentially, which of the following needs to be true for the escort:
1) The target ship needs to be in arc of your gatlings (which makes sense to me).
AND/OR
2) The firing ship/boarding ship needs to be in arc of the gatlings (which is required for a ship to fire its own gatlings).
Three possibilities:
A - Defended ship must be in arc (and range), attacker's position doesn't matter.
B - Attacker must be in arc, defended ship must be in range but position doesn't matter.
C - Both attacker and defended ship must be in a single gatling arc, and defended ship in range.
The rule does clearly state that it is the position of the friendly ship that is important, in terms of its relation to the Escorts Gatling Arcs. The attackers position is of no consequence to the Escort whatsoever for the purposes of the defensive fire.
All the 'can use those Gatlings as if they were mounted on the target ship' phrase means is that the Escort can use its Gat's to protect another ship (and only those that have the ship in arc etc etc).
Hal.
All the 'can use those Gatlings as if they were mounted on the target ship' phrase means is that the Escort can use its Gat's to protect another ship (and only those that have the ship in arc etc etc).
Hal.
1 and A are correct - the rule does not say anything about the enemy!
I'm trying to pick a second fleet at the moment and lean toward Kurgans or possibly Vuldrok, but the Kurgan weapons loadout worries me having seen how poor al-Malik fare in some battles. It seems as though the increase in hits is simply covering for the fact that they have to soak up a lot more damage as they desperately try to hit with their Inaccurate weapons. Having seen the heat blasters when we tested out the 'Rack' frigates, I'm not yet convinced. I'll have to try them though.
The Allat seems to be an attempt to cover one of the areas where the Hazat are weak, making them even better than they were. Since it appears the main Kurgan advantage is the suicide fighter, of course the Hazat need it. When we used the Allat, it seemed pretty straightforward compared to some of the other wordings, it's all about the ship you're defending. You have to fly a pretty tight formation, though, and once ships start taking criticals things get complicated.
The other houses badly need some better ships. The Hazat get something to make them even better at boarding, another cruiser and something that makes them good against Kurgans and al-Malik. Stealthships are hard to use and easy to kill, the al-Malik escort carrier is useless, the Naga Grand Cruiser isn't worth taking instead of the Maru etc etc. I'm more impressed with the Monitors for the Decados, they are useful in certain situations as support ships much like the Allat. They can't take much punishment, though (2 shields? Less than a raider?!)
I just hope that's it for the Hazat, but won't bet on it. I'm interested to see the Vau and hope they get balanced. Vau are supposed to be very, very advanced compared to the Known Worlds/'Barbarian' worlds, i.e. can take on fleets on their own. One of their ships should be capable of taking on small fleets.
The Allat seems to be an attempt to cover one of the areas where the Hazat are weak, making them even better than they were. Since it appears the main Kurgan advantage is the suicide fighter, of course the Hazat need it. When we used the Allat, it seemed pretty straightforward compared to some of the other wordings, it's all about the ship you're defending. You have to fly a pretty tight formation, though, and once ships start taking criticals things get complicated.
The other houses badly need some better ships. The Hazat get something to make them even better at boarding, another cruiser and something that makes them good against Kurgans and al-Malik. Stealthships are hard to use and easy to kill, the al-Malik escort carrier is useless, the Naga Grand Cruiser isn't worth taking instead of the Maru etc etc. I'm more impressed with the Monitors for the Decados, they are useful in certain situations as support ships much like the Allat. They can't take much punishment, though (2 shields? Less than a raider?!)
I just hope that's it for the Hazat, but won't bet on it. I'm interested to see the Vau and hope they get balanced. Vau are supposed to be very, very advanced compared to the Known Worlds/'Barbarian' worlds, i.e. can take on fleets on their own. One of their ships should be capable of taking on small fleets.
A quick note on all this; the playtest rules posted for the ships you have cited are just that - playtest rules. The final release of Fleets will see them modified (in fact, that book is shaping up quite nicely and, I feel, really puts Noble Armada 'in gear').
