new player has a few questions and comments.

[yann]

hello everyone.

My friend and i played our first game yesterday (5pt raid centauri VS ISA) and it raised a few questions and comments.

the lists were:

centauri (me):
primus
balvarin (1 patrol point on rutharian)
2 demos
1 maximus
4 extra fligth of razik

ISA:
WS gunship
2 WS
2 blue star
and the rest in WS fighters

so here are the questions:

a) Are critical supposed to be that devastating? they seem overly deadly and lead me to think it is better to have many many ships than fewer (this way you have lots of opportunities to inflict criticals and more hulls to absorb them!)

exemple from our game:

1- both white stars went down in flames from the two demos before they could even fire due mostly to criticals.
2- the WS gunship fell to one turn of rear shots from the primus (maybe with the help of one demos i can't recall) due to criticals
3- the Balvarin fell on turn one just to the beam weapon of the gunship again due to criticals

so did we do something wrong, were incredibly lucky, or are criticals suppose to be that deadly (especially from double/triple damage weapons?)

b) do adaptive armor apply to criticals? i mean when the reactor exlodes the armor on the hull won't help so much?

c) can the maximus intensify defensive fire to double his interceptor and antifighter and then lend these newly aquired dice to other ships?

d) i am scratchbuilding my own fleet (they are influenced by modern naval ships and are based on a vertical sail/wing design). this raises few questions:

d1) fighter bases don't have to be hexagonal, using Games workshop base is okay? (i don't think the bases will influence the game so much as long as the size is rougthly 1 inch)

d2) ship ranges are measured from the center so the size of the base doesn't really matter, however since my ships are mostly vertical would it be an unfair advantage VS boresigth weapons as i offer a smaller target? or does it really makes not so much of a difference?

e) beside sign and portents and this forum is there a website with strategy/tactis tips and overviews of the different fleet?


finally i'd like advice about my 5pt raid list. i'll face mostly ISA and eventually vree and narn.

so far it is:
primus
balvarin (1 patrol point on rutharian)
2 demos
1 maximus
4 extra fligth of razik

i am thinking of replacing the primus by
1 raid
1 demos
and either fighters or another skrimish.

or i could replace it with a liati (considering the ammount of WS in my main enemy list)


thanks

yann

 

[Karhedron]

Hello,

a) Yup, criticals are fairly deadly and this is an important part of the game. If you look at the stats of a ship and the weapons, you will see that it will normally take 2-3 turns of equal ships nibbling away at each other to cripple each other (excluding special actions, manouvring etc). This being the case, the law of averages kicks in and games would become very predictable.

Criticals allow small ships to potentially strike serious blows against much larger targets. Having said that, there are some people who feel that criticals are a bit too powerful at the moment and that large ships can be taken out too easily by a few lucky hits. Still, that is a different discussion but basically crits are an important and deadly feature of the game.

Yes, the current edition of the game does seem to be slightly skewed in favour of smaller ships. Swarm fleets tend to do very well.

b) Actually, Adaptive armour DOES apply to criticals. If you were not playing this way then it partially explains why the White Stars didn't last very long.

c) Yes, this is an important ability for escorts. As long as it passes its Crew Quality test.

d1) GW bases are roughly the same size so you should be OK. You should try to keep them as close as possible to the same size as the base size determines how many fighters can attack a particular ship.

d2) Probably not enough to be a big difference.

e) This is the best place I have found so far. Welcome to the Mongoose Lair!

Your fleet looks fairly decent. However Demos are currently regarded as one of the best Skirmish level ships in the game so including an extra 1 or 2 certainly won't do you any harm.

Hmm, the Liati is OK vs White Stars, I think some Vree ships tend to have didge so it might be useful. Are you sure you want to stick to a single list? Most players tend to tweak their fleet between games unless playing in a tournement.

 

[yann]

thanks... i guess it makes the white stars more survivable...

so can anybody give me a reason (other than pure awsomeness of the look and fluff of larger ships ) to field large ships rather than many small ones?


also i have another question regarding deployment. Are fleet deployed all at once or is it like moving/firing with players alternating placing ships?

yann

 

[inq101]

Don't bother with the GW bases at the moment. There not currently selling the bags of flying bases and if you mail order them it costs £2 EACH!

 

[Banichi]

also i have another question regarding deployment. Are fleet deployed all at once or is it like moving/firing with players alternating placing ships?

yann

Fleets are deployed all at once, with the person who lost the initiative role for deployment placing their ships first. If you have more scouts in your fleet than your oponant you can re-roll this test.

 

[Karhedron]

so can anybody give me a reason (other than pure awsomeness of the look and fluff of larger ships ) to field large ships rather than many small ones?

Firepower! :twisted:

The alternating initiative sequence tends to mean that for each ship you shoot, your opponent gets to do the same. If you have a fleet of small ships, that tends to mean it will take you longer to shoot.

For instance, if you have 10 skirmish PL ships and your opponent has 5 Raid PL ships, he will get to fire his entire fleet while you will only have fired half of yours. If he concentrates his fire, he may manage to kill some of those small ships before they get a chance to shoot at all.

Higher PL ships give you the option to unload more firepower in one go, potentially doing a lot of damage in the process.

It is worth noting though that you can get a similar effect by squadroning groups of small ships together. This can be a particularly nasty tactic as it tends to provide the advantages of bigger ships with none of the drawbacks. :shock:

 

[chainmailler]

"Don't bother with the GW bases at the moment. There not currently selling the bags of flying bases and if you mail order them it costs £2 EACH!"

Really, becuase the gamestor I go to has bags of large GW flying bases for 8 bucks.....

 

[Ripple]

Yeah, squadrons kick single large ships in the teeth.

In some games larger ships have lasted long enough to repair and finish the fight. Not often, but sometimes.

Ripple

 

[Darzoni]

so can anybody give me a reason (other than pure awsomeness of the look and fluff of larger ships ) to field large ships rather than many small ones?

yann

Eh, somebody else has probably answered this by now, but here's my take.

Sending in a big ship without a lot of little guys to support it is suicide. So generally you take a fleet of smaller dudes to back up your one or two big guns.

Of course, the local play environment plays a huge role in what tactics and strategies will actually succeed, so your mileage may vary.

For example: If everybody's taking swarm fleets locally, that one big-gun becomes a bit of a liability, since taking it means you won't have as many ships to play the initiative sink game with.

Though on the other hand, having a ship that can core their little guys in one shot is pretty nice too. Mmm... popcorn....

 

[dag'karlove]

Yeah, squadrons kick single large ships in the teeth.

In some games larger ships have lasted long enough to repair and finish the fight. Not often, but sometimes.

Ripple

I Disagree. Im a Heavies guy. The heavy Warships always do well for me as thier larger weapons will end up destroying at least one if not 2 ships in a turn. My Larger ships Tend to last very very long and not because i sit them back and hide them But because i use them to go sink huting and Then go after the big baddies who have already been softened up by my smaller ships. i guess its a difference of startegies is all.

 

[Iain McGhee]

The larger ships tend to have longer ranged weapons too. An Omega with it's range 30 laser can often kill a few smaller ships before they even get into range. Many larger ships also carry fighters whereas a fleet of small ships would likely have to pay FPs for independant wings to counter them (and those flights would give VPs, unlike the carried ones).

 

[Lord David the Denied]

It really does depend on the ship. Some large ships are suited to duking it out with other big ships - see the G'Vrahn or Warlock for examples of these - while others are more suited to smacking smaller ships about, like the Primus or Octurion from the Centauri list.

A lot of larger ships have nasty beams backed by multiple secondary weapons which can make them effective for killing several small ships over a turn or two of firing, while others are focused on one or two large weapons, like the Shadows, Vorlons and a few others. You really have to select the ship you want for the job, and hope that you don't get a critical hit that takes it out of the game before it does what you bought it for.

 

[Ripple]

Locally we hide dedicated sinks fairly well I guess. Never anywhere where a heavy could reach them in less than three to four turns. I think one big difference from the Dag'kar crowd is that we play relatively smaller fleet. We play 5 skirmish to 5 battle almost exclusively on a 4x6 table with random terrain (d6 per square foot, 6 indicating terrain). Usually lots of good hiding places.

The squadron effect was used best in tourney locally by Dave with his 5 Battle fleet...

5 Hyperion squadroned
3 Olympus squadroned
2 Oracle
10 Hermes

all fighters T-bolts.

Twelve sinks, and a Hyperion hammer.

but that was 1st ed, second ed it would suffer vs a emine heavy fleet. Something else I think is different locally, we don't have a dedicated Narn player with lots of Dag'kar figures to do the blanket attacks. Though my paired G'Vrahns remain undefeated...

ripple

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Though my paired G'Vrahns remain undefeated...

Curiously enough...