New Player...Game Gripes

[Binars]

Hello Everybody!

I don't know how many new people you see these days but judging from the posts in the forum it seems that new births are rare! No matter. I decided to trade away one of my games I never played, for a brand new box of GOMCO plus 3 blisters on Boardgamegeek.com. I have never read a Dredd comic in my life but I think that the whole premise of Dredd and his world is cool. I have also never played a miniatures game but really liked the world here so I just went for it.

Now I am a bit overwhelmed. Not that the rules are complex. Quite the contrary. They are actually a bit too simplified (but I was warned). Not that, that is a bad thing. I just thought that a miniatures game strove to be a bit more "realistic" due to the level of detail that the miniatures themselves can achieve and environments you can create! A bit more about this later.

My only real gripe is in the range rules. There basically aren't any. As range to a target increases, the probability to hit should decrease. This is really fundamental to me in any engagement/war game. The "if its within the maximum distance of the weapon, your chance to hit is the same, if its an inch away or 10 inches". This oversimplification in a game where you have to measure distances for everything, is in my opinion, unacceptable. This omission nullifies any advantage of engaging the enemy in closer quarters. Bad.

However, I think I have a simple fix that keeps within the spirit of the game and its streamlined rules. I have yet to actually try them but it goes something like this:

1) Determine maximum range of weapon.
2) Divide the value into 3rds (multiply by 0.33)
3) Add -1 to all die rolls for all distance greater than 1/3 the maximum range of the weapon being fired and -2 for distances greater than 2/3 the maximum range of the weapon being fired.

I realize that this modifier may be a bit more than the game can effectively implement and still be playable. Its a place to start and hopefully, I can figure out a simple fix like this to use in our games. I would appreciate any opinions on this idea or any other suggestions. I am so utterly disappointed in the range rules as they are written, it makes me not want to play the game as it stands.

Now an even larger concern. This whole terrain aspect is VERY daunting. As well as the miniature creation. I am a very experienced historical spacecraft modeler. I have created some nice historical spacecraft model kits (and still do so) but these kits do not require the painting techniques that are necessary to create nicely detailed miniatures that look good for miniatures gaming. Lets face it. Miniatures gaming is NOTHING unless you can create a nice looking, realistic environment to play in.

Miniatures require a level of imagination in order to be fun, that can only be maintained with environments that are pleasing to look at. If it looks like a 3rd grader put it together the entertainment factor is lost for me. Poorly painted minis are not exciting to play with and it takes from the gaming experience. There are far to many games to play. Unless you have a nice environment to play in, the fun factor drops precipitously and too much is left to the imagination to fill in. I need to feel like I am a part of the action and that Coke can in the middle of the action just ruins it for me.

So I am desperately seeking help on constructing long lasting, detailed construction techniques to use in my gaming. WorldWorks has great sets, but you really need to make them a bit more rugged to use routinely and store for easy quick use. Any suggestions on how to make nice foam board kits would be nice. It would be great if Mongoose would put together a book for us newbies, who have never played a minis games and have no one else to show us on how to build and paint minis!

I will play my game. Thing is, I want to continue playing it and get my friends playing. With cheap looking minis and sets it wont happen. I have a group of friends who play Heroscape and Star Wars minis. I have played SW but not HS. SW is fun but it has the same range problem as GOMCO but additionally lacks the 3rd dimension that GOMCO has available. I think GOMCO has huge potential to get them turned on. I'm competing with factory painted minis and landscape. Please help me and a chance to get more gangs in the world!.

One last request....I have compiled a list of GOMCO entries in Sign and Portents. Please LMK if I have missed any and if there is any other GOMCO material to be found anywhere.

SP #20, 23, 24, 26, 30, 31, 32, 37, 38, 39, 43, 45

All the Best, Love all Serve All,
Roger Summers

 

[Rob_A]

Bit of a lot to read so I skimmed it.
Simple rules create a less stressful wargame. As you have never played wargames, I guess you havent had the chance to realise this. A game of gangs can be achieved in an hour or two, a Napoleonics game re-enacting all of Waterloo with all the range modifiers you speak of will probably never end!

Wargames are made for fun, not re-enactments. Gangs especially. It is a good ruleset, the miniatures are nice and there is printable scenery available that is very nice if one is lazy. Miniature gaming doesnt have to look good either, that would be unfair! There are a lot of gamers who do not have painting skill. It's all about taking things with a pinch of salt and having a good, unstressed time.

 

[Binars]

Hey Rob...we have meet on the BGG b4. Nice to Talk with you again.

I am an avid and old school wargamer. I know you really didn't read my lengthy rant in detail but I needed to point that out. Anyway, what you say is very appropriate and I am glad you brought me back to the love of the theme and game rules again. I like everything about the rule set except for the utter lack of a simple range mechanic.

I still strongly feel that there needs to be some simple range rules to go with this game. However, not any highly detailed ones and really as simple as the ones I am proposing. I know they will need some kind of tweaking because I haven't even played a game yet! I am sure the game is fun as it stands as well. I just need to have this basic principle apply for a shoot em game! Its a personal desire but I feel it is necessary for any rules where engagement is the root of the game.

I love to build. I just want someone to teach me how to do it for this stuff! I know I will learn how to build sturdy sets sooner or later and I am slowly massing web links to direct me.....

 

[The Old Soldier]

Old school Wargamer. I do agree adding ranges is something to consider. As long as we do not get bogged down in the details. A simple normal, and extreme range may handle it, if you want to take that route.

As for terrain, for me it has always been a trial and error thing. I suggest you start with making copies of the stuff in the box. I use card and thin wood to strenghen the structures, and add the thin balsa or card around door frames and window, to give it that 3D look. Simple. Once you get the hang of that, you can always look at new methods to improve your building and terrain. What ever you do, don't build the stuff in the box, but the photo copies of them, and paste them to your card. That way if you mess up, you can alway make another photo copy. By Keeping it cheap, you don't have to worry when you mess up. With practice you will be making terrain in no time.

 

[Rob_A]

Hey Rob...we have meet on the BGG b4. Nice to Talk with you again.

The who, the where and the what now?

 

[scotherns]

Hello Everybody!

Hi Roger! Welcome to GOMC-1.

My only real gripe is in the range rules. There basically aren't any.
...
However, I think I have a simple fix that keeps within the spirit of the game and its streamlined rules.

This is entirely up to you - I have played games with very realistic range and suppression rules (Stargrunt II), and games with none (GOMC-1). It all depends on what you feel like playing at the time. My wife will play GOMC-1, and has so far not been persuaded to play SGII. The GOMC1 rules as they stand are fast playing, and easy for beginners to grasp. I typically play GOMC-1 on very crowded terrain, so most shots are at close/point blank range anyway, so adding in range modifiers wouldn't really do much for me. I don't miss them for this game.

If you are adding in range effects, I would be more inclined to give bonuses for close range rather than negatives for long, as the GOMC-1 weapons (and ganger skill levels) are deliberately toned down to give gangers some survivability. Its quite possible for two gangers with double barreled stump guns at point blank range to require several shots at each other before doing any damage. Yes, its unrealistic, but surprisingly fun once you actually try it

If I were you , I would play a game or two with normal rules before adding in range effects, just to get a feel for how the game 'normally' plays.

So I am desperately seeking help on constructing long lasting, detailed construction techniques to use in my gaming. WorldWorks has great sets, but you really need to make them a bit more rugged to use routinely and store for easy quick use. Any suggestions on how to make nice foam board kits would be nice.

I have a lot of WorldWorks terrain, and it is more sturdy than you might think. Its also quite easy to reinforce it with foam-board if you really need to toughen it up. The WorldWorks forums are very friendly, very active, and have had lots of discussion about this area, its well worth a look.

Hope this helps, and I look forward to hearing about your first games!

Steve

 

[JoseDominguez]

The mars station sets are ideal for GOMC-1, the triangle fold at the top of the bulkheads makes them really sturdy and the roof sections are all foamcore. We've used it for over a year with no damage other than the odd beer stain (but we laser print, so even that wipes off).

As for range, GOMC-1 is based on a comic book, it's meant to play like a comic book.... it works. If the shooting rules were realistic, you'd:
A) never get into close combat
B) play a gang once, bury it then start again next time

As Scotherns says, try it 'as is' you'll find it so fast you don't even think about the range, it's all about position and using the correct model at the correct time. Shooting is abstract in all war games, in GOMC-1 it's downplayed to keep the scale small.
Do you play chess? How the hell can a Bishop outrun a knight on horseback?

GOMC-1 isn't realistic, it's not meant to be, but it is true to the feel of the comics. Altering it would change the feel of the setting and to be honest that's the main draw for me. It needs to be fast, the campaign system is so brutal you need to be able to play games quickly.
Give the campaign a go..... it's balance relies on being totally unfair! Anyone getting too powerful is torn apart by the judges, it's brilliant.
But if it was more detailed/complex the games would slow down, if the individual games became slower, longer and therefore individually more important, that sense of fun, even in defeat would be reduced. I don't mind my gang running off the board in fear during a forty minute game (after all, they live to fight the next game), but if I'd been playing for a couple of hours, I'd feel differently.

 

[pasuuli]

Interesting points from all of you. Thanks for giving this lurker some insight into minis games, and this one in particular.

 

[JoseDominguez]

here's some of my worldworks stuff

And one of my baseboards...... used as cursed earth.

 

[Binars]

Thank you everybody!

I suggest you start with making copies of the stuff in the box. I use card and thin wood to strenghen the structures, ....With practice you will be making terrain in no time.

I have a lot of WorldWorks terrain, and it is more sturdy than you might think. Its also quite easy to reinforce it with foam-board if you really need to toughen it up. The WorldWorks forums are very friendly, very active, and have had lots of discussion about this area, its well worth a look.

I am very appreciative for the simple suggestion of making copies of the cardboard stock for practice. Brilliant! Its these simple suggestions that just make you go "errr...dah...". The reinforcing is also a must try and I will be experimenting to see what really works best in that regard.

If you are adding in range effects, I would be more inclined to give bonuses for close range rather than negatives for long, as the GOMC-1 weapons (and ganger skill levels) are deliberately toned down to give gangers some survivability. Its quite possible for two gangers with double barreled stump guns at point blank range to require several shots at each other before doing any damage. Yes, its unrealistic, but surprisingly fun once you actually try it

Yes, this is exactly what I was getting at! I know after reading the rules that there is a simple fix for this peeve of mine. Ill play soon and then start the tweaking. I agree that it must stay VERY SIMPLE and BASIC in keeping with the cleanness of these elegant rules. Im not looking for complex or totally realistic here. I believe this suggestion may be justt he thing!

Love All, Serve All, All the Best,
Roger Summers a.k.a. Binars

 

[scotherns]

Now that I come to think about it, there is already a small 'range adjustment' in the basic rules! The Stump guns have a 'Blast' special rule that gives them a + 1 to damage within 5"

Steve