New fighters in actual games

[H]

The enemy had zero fighters against my 17; I took 4 starfuries, and 13 thunderbolts.

And there is the only significant part of this report...

Wulf

Play nice Wulf!

 

[Burger]

What I've noticed in my games is that I am more likely to take a few points in Vree fighters to give some protection to my big ships. Keep 'em close, sacrifice them if you have to in a dogfight...but that leaves those fighters that are going to chew you up from shooting for a turn; therefore allowing you to sweep in (Vree mobility, remember?) and make use of your anti-fighter stuff.

I wish Minbari could do that too, but with Nials costing one patrol point per flight, it just isn't possible.
Minbari definitely came off worst from the fighter change.

 

[H]

What I've noticed in my games is that I am more likely to take a few points in Vree fighters to give some protection to my big ships. Keep 'em close, sacrifice them if you have to in a dogfight...but that leaves those fighters that are going to chew you up from shooting for a turn; therefore allowing you to sweep in (Vree mobility, remember?) and make use of your anti-fighter stuff.

I wish Minbari could do that too, but with Nials costing one patrol point per flight, it just isn't possible.
Minbari definitely came off worst from the fighter change.

You know Burger, I'm gonna slap you! enough with the bonehead complaints already ;-) you are begining to remind me of someone. . . .

 

[Burger]

What I've noticed in my games is that I am more likely to take a few points in Vree fighters to give some protection to my big ships. Keep 'em close, sacrifice them if you have to in a dogfight...but that leaves those fighters that are going to chew you up from shooting for a turn; therefore allowing you to sweep in (Vree mobility, remember?) and make use of your anti-fighter stuff.

I wish Minbari could do that too, but with Nials costing one patrol point per flight, it just isn't possible.
Minbari definitely came off worst from the fighter change.

You know Burger, I'm gonna slap you! enough with the bonehead complaints already ;-) you are begining to remind me of someone. . . .

My bony crest itches. I think they should be reduced in density.

 

[B_Steele]

I wish Minbari could do that too, but with Nials costing one patrol point per flight, it just isn't possible.
Minbari definitely came off worst from the fighter change.

Our local guy just makes sure to take the variants that carry more fighters, or the Morshin, pretty regularly...and he does just fine.

*shrug*

Bry

 

[H]

that should work for the vree too, oh wait....

I think having to take varients just because of fighters is a bit lame, but each to their own I suppose.

 

[Burger]

I wish Minbari could do that too, but with Nials costing one patrol point per flight, it just isn't possible.
Minbari definitely came off worst from the fighter change.

Our local guy just makes sure to take the variants that carry more fighters, or the Morshin, pretty regularly...and he does just fine.

*shrug*

Bry

What variants that carry more fighters?
Morshin is OK but spending a battle point just to get some fighter escorts is a bit excessive at 5pt Raid. In a bigger battle, fair enough.

 

[Alexb83]

Burger's right - there are no variants that carry more fighters. Quite the contrary in fact. The best you can get besides the Morshin (8 nial, 1 flyer) is the plain old Sharlin (4 nial, one flyer). The best after that are the Tigara and the Leshath... which have a grand total of one flight each.
The troligan, not that you would ever take it... 1 flight of flyers.

Minbari are well and truly boned, if you'll pardon the phrase

 

[Twin-Linked Aldades]

Teshlan has a flight of nials as well at raid and is considered here in lil` belgium better then the basic Tigara, and the Esgharan is a nightmare for the fighters themselves

 

[Alexb83]

A nightmare if the enemy player is silly enough to move his fighters within 4 inches perhaps - otherwise it's a lot of AD, but 2+ dodge will generally get the target by.
And assuming they fail that, most fleets have a designated carrier to try and recover them.

 

[Locutus9956]

Yeah after all why would the Minbari ever want to take a Sharlin seeing as its such a TERRBILE ship...... And the Morshin too, poor Minbari, they have to make do with one of the best fleet carriers in the game.

All this said I DO think 2 Nials per wing would be better still. They did that for the tourney version and it was fine there. Its just a little change that could be done easily enough....

 

[Alexb83]

Let's see.... because they're Battle and War level? Because for your heavily invested FAP, most other fleets can have twice as many fighters or energy mines on the table?

 

[H]

Let's see.... because they're Battle and War level? Because for your heavily invested FAP, most other fleets can have twice as many fighters or energy mines on the table?

PLEASE don't start a big minbari whine, please, pretty please?

 

[Locutus9956]

So? Minbari are weaker at lower PLs. That is a fact you just have to accept when playing them. Some of these complaints about fighter vulnerability are getting dangerously close to 'my fleet has a weakness its not fair I should be able to win by pressing the 'you die button'' sort of complaints.

Yes Minbari are now quite vulnerable to fighters. But theyre hardly defenceless as they can engage most enemies before their fighters even get close to attack range and whilst they cant get many fighters of their own at low levels they CAN often choose WHERE their fighters engage due to their initiative advantage and speed advantage.

For example: 1 Nial vs 4 Starfuries. On paper the Nials seem to be completely screwed dont they but if the Minbari are careful they can engage AFTER the furies move if they win initiative and take the furies out one at a time. Of course this wont stop most of them attacking your ships but as someone pointed out if you keep your ships closer together you can clear the enemy fighters out quite nicely. They may get a turn of shooting at you but even a lot of T-Bolts are unlikely to do THAT much damage in 1 turn and if theyre all gone after that, then your opponent has spent alot of points for a effectively a 1 shot weapon....

 

[Wulf Corbett]

So? Minbari are weaker at lower PLs. That is a fact you just have to accept when playing them. Some of these complaints about fighter vulnerability are getting dangerously close to 'my fleet has a weakness its not fair I should be able to win by pressing the 'you die button'' sort of complaints.

Welcome to my world :evil:

Wulf

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Play nice Wulf!

But that IS IT. That's the whole problem right there. You go against a fleet who's primary characteristic is fighters, and you take no fighters yourself. Recipe for disaster. Put some flights on Support, either they'll win the Dogfights, and reduce the number of enemy flights, or they'll lose and the enemy flights are left in prime Anti-Fighter range!

Wulf

 

[H]

I know, but be Nicer about it :wink:

 

[Locutus9956]

Ah actually that brings up a very good question. Dogfights now occur BEFORE firng so does that mean that fighters that win a dogfight are then valid targets for anti fighter guns? Cos if so that could give Minbari another trick, use what nials they have to simply engage the enemy fighters and then even if they die they can minibeam the surviving enemies to hell....

For the record as I mentioned earlier I DO think Minbari shoulg get 2 per wing of their fighters but I can certainly cope with them NOT getting so. Personally I cant remember EVER buying an independant wing of fighters for them, even in the initial release when all fighter guns were precice.....

Oh and incidentally if you want to use them purely defensively dont use Nials, use Tishats, its only antother +1 dogfight but thats still a whole extra support flight you can take on simultaneously and win....

 

[katadder]

prob is starfuries now got an upgrade in dogfight they should never have got, they are as good as sentris and nearly upto nials standard. i wont even use sentris in my centauri fleet, raziks all the way. but 4 flights isnt too much to worry about, my tigaras have been gettin attack by multiple flights, taking some damage then blowing them away. the starfuries only get one attack run. however i do believe all EA fighters need their dogfight dropping back down, and thunderbolts should perhaps be dodge 3+ like most other heavy fighter/bombers. they got hull 5 to protect them anyway so combined with their firepower, the dodge and the dogfight score and that you get so many of them i think t-bolts are the best in the game.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Ah actually that brings up a very good question. Dogfights now occur BEFORE firng so does that mean that fighters that win a dogfight are then valid targets for anti fighter guns?

I see no option, that is the sequence of play.

It even makes Abbai Kotha a good anti-Nial defence...

Wulf